What types of dishes?

[celtfiddler]

Re: What types of dishes?

Miss Denison--

Keep an eye out at your local grocery stores (ie Albertsons, Safeway etc). Sometimes they run promotions with the Blue Willow pattern at pretty reasonable prices.

[ElizabethClark]

Re: What types of dishes?

Kimberly, how's the backmark on the supermarket pieces you've seen? Sometimes they give out "blank" backs, which is more useful than the modern marked pieces.

[Charles Heath]

Re: What types of dishes?

Garrison,

Thank you for your usual professional level contributions to this thread and numerous others. (Just in case no one has mentioned this lately.)

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: What types of dishes?

Thank you Charles.

...how's the backmark on the supermarket pieces...

I’ll post this again. http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/...ight=backmarks

I have a few housekeeping chores in another section, after that I’ll post a few dozen more backmarks.

[ElizabethClark]

Re: What types of dishes?

Mr Beall, thanks for linking to that older discussion; I missed it back in 2004, and I'm glad to know it's still here!

Here's the thought process I've been pondering:

1: I don't like to use originals for LH, for all the standard reasons (rarity, fragility, patina of age for something that would be "new" to me in the past, etc)

2: Modern repros may have far more modern info in a backmark that would have been period for the backmark

3: Most folks won't be reading the backmark everytime I take a sip of coffee.

4: Therefore, even if the backmark is more extensive than it should be, I'm okay with using the repro so long as it conforms to the historic counterpart as to composition (ie, china, not melamine), weight, color, decoration, etc.

In the opinion of others, does this sound like a workable thought process for material culture decisions related to housewares such as dishes?

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: What types of dishes?

I loose sleep over this stuff.

I certainly agree that a $1200.00 tureen with an lid and under-plate should stay home on the hunt board but I still have to ask what is going on at a household living history that would jeopardize sturdy original wares. I know accidents happen but they can happen anywhere... so why even collect? The average cost of a mid 1850’s blue transfer plate is 12.00. If you are want to use them in a field setting then buy pieces with flea bites, chips, cracks or missing parts. They cost even less.Take a look at the image discussed here; http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/...8&d=1175118663 You will find compotes and sugars with no lids. There is a small earthenware milk pitcher with the handle snapped off.


Please realize ironstone is a different type of ware. It should be called ironclad. The things were made to handle rough everyday use and age doesn’t change that. My mother uses a huge 1830’s Davenport meat platter almost Sunday dinner. If it can survive me…


*****


The modern backmarks on historical patterns are big and ugly. Ill take a detour from my standards and run down a modern example this weekend. I’ll see how easy it is to grind of the mark. I’ll even break it and compare the fabric.


*****

Here is a short chronology of just a few of the infamous Blue Willow:

[ElizabethClark]

Re: What types of dishes?

Thanks, that would be very helpful! (I hope it doesn't give you rashes to handle inferior stuff, though... I feel this is rather akin to asking me to make a dress from acetate. :) )

There's likely not anything at an in-house LH that would destroy an original piece, save MYSELF. I'm a notorious clutz. I don't collect original dishes, becaue I'd end up with a collection of original dish shards. :) Likewise, I try to avoid handling other people's originals, for fear I'll damage them.

What's your thought process on the patina issue? If something is fairly "new" in, say 1859, but I'm using an original, there's always the patina of the intervening years to consider. If it's a pristine example, with no patina at all, then I'm back to the "Oy, I'm likely to drop it" problem, but I do run into the issue of using a slightly battered (and thus affordable, and not such a worry about damage) original, when in the historic setting and situation, it wouldn't have been a battered piece.

(Ironstone is about the only thing I've NOT managed to break on accident. Lovely stuff.)

[celtfiddler]

Re: What types of dishes?

Kimberly, how's the backmark on the supermarket pieces you've seen? Sometimes they give out "blank" backs, which is more useful than the modern marked pieces.

Let me check the pieces I have later this week when my household goods are delivered. We just moved for the third time in 3.5 years.

[Drygoods]

Re: What types of dishes?

Well, I think it better to use repro dishes when you can get them. Oddly enough, I live in a part of the country where it is cheaper to buy the originals than the reproductions, but I still think that most should use the repros.

I, myself, was blessed with a family who held onto everything old. Consequently, when I married I brought 7 sets of old china into my new home. Within that next decade of marriage, I managed to collect, well double my collection. And yes, I was crushed once when I lost 4 teacups that dated to 1830 at an event, but was just as crushed when I lost 4 brown and white transfer plates which had a sailing ship and were repros. My worst loss came with the three large quakes of 1992, that cost me 7 sets of china lost. My point is that, yes, we save china for a variety of reasons, sometimes for use at events, others to have a 'special' set for happy occassions.

The most important comment that I am struggling to get to is that china on your table is an expression of who you are, and loss can happen anywhere at anytime. If you want to be cautious, use the repros and save the originals for when you have company at home. As for myself, I do a mix of both (using repro and then another time originals at events), my greatest pleasure is the fact that from time to time I get to use these things and enjoy them to their best potential, and I wouldn't be very happy if I always left them to their cabinets saving them for good. Today when I loose a piece, I immediately run to ebay to find replacements.

Period china is a great wonder, and a powerful expression of who your character was as an individual. I know that some will not understand my point in this, so will save it for a later post.

[Silvana Siddali]

Re: What types of dishes?

I really do understand your point of view, Judith, and in some ways you're bringing to light the real reason we're all in this crazy hobby -- to feel as though we could almost touch the past in some way. One thing that may be worth pointing out again, though, is that old china really does dry out and become very brittle with disuse. So it doesn't take much of an impact to shatter it, unfortunately. Of course that might not be the case with your inherited china, since it seems to have been in constant use. But I would suggest that period china found in antique shops should probably just be put on display.

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: What types of dishes?

... old china really does dry out and become very brittle with disuse.

Not really. Earthenware china perhaps but not stoneware or ironstone.

[Drygoods]

Re: What types of dishes?

Yes, I must agree with Mr. Beall on the brittle issue. If this was the case then most of those 1830 dishes that sat out in the yard in the blazing sun and 24 feet of snow in winter would have been totally ruined.

My initial point was that you have to use things to be able to enjoy them. Keeping things packed safely in boxes in the garage is not using or even enjoying them, I'd say that is nothing short of being a pack-rat.

Yes, you can wail and lament the loss of china or glassware when it gets broken. I sure do, but I get over it in time and move on. Will I give up using period china? No, I enjoy it and like collecting too much. I am not the type of collector who takes one or two pieces, like most collectors, no, I buy as many in a set as I can afford and then add to it over time. Memorialware or historicalware I would never take out of the house, but then I've seen how an earthquake or perhaps a beloved pet and break things, even safely tucked in cabinets.

The one thing that I would love to see is to find more people get away from using tin pans and wooden trenchiers for living history. And learn something about correct period glassware and table service too. The whole world didn't eat everything off of a spoon.:baring_te Material culture? Give some serious thought into learning how to eat as well as what to eat when doing your living history. Teach yourself how to use your fork in your left hand. When your fork is in your right hand, it's not meant to be a miniature shovel scoop. Look into period glassware by attending a wine tasting, or visit antique shops that specialize in period dishware and have them line out the glasses for you and explain which course got such and such wine glass. We shouldn't be drinking everything out of a giant tin mug. What to eat? Ever had a steak and kidney pie? Make one, learn to eat rabbit or venison. Instead of stew at events, get a meat jack and roast a duck, leg of lamb, anything but sticky glutenous stew.:tounge_sm And if your tastes do not run to wildlife, take along an arrangement of vegetables...you'd be amazed how few people today know their vegetables.
Oh, Ahem, sorry for the ranting. I just really, really, had to get that off my chest.

[celtfiddler]

Re: What types of dishes?

Finally started locating a few of the pieces I have. The cups have no backmarking except for made in England (in slightly raised white letters). The saucers and fruit/cereal bowls have a modern backmark (different than the image Mr Beall has so graciously shared).

I'll post an image of the backmark as soon as I can find where our digital camera was buried in the unpacking process.

[ElizabethClark]

Re: What types of dishes?

Thanks, Kimberly! I hope the move is going smoothly.

[Emmanuel Dabney]

Re: What types of dishes?

Mr. Utley has recently added even more dinnerware to his website which is in our Approved Vendors list.