somewhat earlier clothing wanted

[Drygoods]

Hello everyone,

I recently purchased some fine wool and would like to make my husband a nice 1850s skirted frock coat. I know that some here do a bit of interpretation into the 1850s, what I want is something 1851-56 era, that would still be suitable for that I once was rich but now I'm poor impression. Also, the desire is that the skirt is not so flat, a bit of a rounder skirt put into it. Any suggestions for good pattern source?

[Emmanuel Dabney]

Re: somewhat earlier clothing wanted

It is unfortunate that you could not attend Mr. Jim Ruley's all day three part workshop at the Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference. According to www.genteelarts.com he would break down the intricacies of the frock coat construction. Unfortunately, I am not aware of any really good pattern other than drafting one from Devere's Handbook of Practical Cutting on the Centre Point System 1866. The only thing is Devere is likely basing his off a straighter profile than frocks of the early to mid 50s.

Wikipedia actually has several fashion plates of 1850s fashions (men and women) as well as photographs and paintings. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1850s_in_fashion

[Citizen_Soldier]

Re: somewhat earlier clothing wanted

Greetings,
There would be a number of factors on how the fellow would be dressed including age, occupation, and somewhat of a factor would be his location.

For an older fellow I don't think you could go wrong with a tightly fitted body, long narrow tubular sleeves with a high armscye, large buttons, and a lapel that is either wide to medium for a frock coat.

The early 1850's are marked by changes in the cut of men's garments, mostly if I remember right around '54 but then as now there was some lag with newer fashions among a majority of the male population. To give you an idea of what I'm referring too....pick up a copy of Esquire off the local magazine stand and look at the garment advertisements...then compare what you see in the magazine to what you see on the streets....certainly a large lag in most parts of the US. Newer fashions were certainly available during the time period all over the country in the 1850's, this can be seen in period advertisements...however then as now it's the more fashion keen younger men who are wearing the newer stuff while older men, especially conservative middle class and fairly well to do business folks aren't really dressing like Justin Timberlake, Fiddy cent, or Carson Daily (in most cases). :) However, just because someone was young doesn't mean they wore everything that was modern for the time....heck today with the internet, TV, radio, planes, and everything else....walk on to a college campus and see how many people are seriously "lagging" in regards to modern fashions.

In regards to finding a pattern for a Frock coat with these details, you may have a difficult task ahead of you. Some fellers have tried buying the commercially available frock coats patterns and modifying them but it takes a fair bit of work to make them fit properly. I think there might be a fellow out there that will draft frock coat patterns for folks...I remember seeing his name within the last year or so...you may want to try that route if someone can share his information. Another option would be to get the Past Patterns Paletot pattern that will fit this period quite well.

I've done a little bit of pattern drafting, however my schedule at this point wouldn't allow a real speedy result. Someone else may be willing to assist you with the project.

Just a quick email, but if I get some more time today I'll try to add to it. It's a crazy busy day. Addtional information can be had from "Dressed for the Photgrapher" by Joan Severa among many other books, original images, genre paintings, and etc...

Darrek Orwig

[Drygoods]

wanting something quick and quality

Mr. Dabney, and Mr. Orwig,

Thank you both very much for your reply. Yes, I was afraid that I would have to draft my own pattern, I just didn't want to do it. You could easily say that for the moment, I've got a fit of laziness, as all I wanted to do was to get the thing cut and done. < another sigh>

No, this has to be a certain style of frock coat, and more than likely, will have those tighter, slightly bent forward sleeves, tight torso, and slightly flared skirt. My husband did the PP paletote ten years ago, helped play with the prototypes actually, and learned some pattern drafting from SRA.

I have all the books mentioned, I just wanted something a bit easier than having to go through the process of doing the muslins &c. Why are men's clothing patterns (civilian) lagging so far behind those of women's patterns? I guess it all comes down to market share, or perhaps because there are fewer civilian events, but I sure had hopes of this being a quick project, now I fear that it might not get done till next fall:( .

I don't know if any of you are like myself, but I already have a pile of projects in the works, a few dresses, bonnets, wool for a paletote or two for me, plus underclothes, and other accessories that I want to draft. Time just has a way of catching up and then you find yourself saying,"wow, I need a new this or that by tomorrow!" Well, you don't really need it, if you're lucky and plan ahead, and when you think it over you've already got five other outfits that would suit just as well.....it's that 'new thing/clothing syndrome' that living history folks get from time to time. Like a cold, it comes through sometime during the season.:D :D