Laundry?

[coastaltrash]

Re: Laundry?

After knowing first hand the length some at Vicksburg have gone to in order to save their seasonal program as well as Living Histories throughout the year (believe it or not, there ARE people who want to do away with us) I believe Traci is doing a wonderful thing. Worst case scenario Traci- you could go down to the Jackson Road Bed and start a fire there and be a stones throw away from the House, which is where I believe the labor would be going on rather than right next to the quarantine hospital. Liz said this info is actually in Virginia's book, but I can't remember which one off the top of my head. I guess in a few weeks Bill and I will hear more about period laundry than we care too. See you soon.

[MrsArmstrong]

Re: Laundry?

Hi Traci
I can't answer your dilemma on the upcoming event. One thought I have is the more knowegde you have the better. A great summer reading program might be interesting. Gather a list of books (diaries, ect) on Civil War nurses. You have a number of teens have each one read one different book on the same topic. Get together and each one can tell about the person, experience or enviroment the person wrote about. I have found each lady I read about had very different personalities and can tell you about the different problems and solutions they experienced. I recently read A Southern Woman's Story, Phoebe Yates Pember, she discribes her experience with the military and civilian occupants of the hospital. The SWCW has a great list of books under "Sources".

http://p10.hostingprod.com/@swcw.org/index.html

Also try a search on books.google.com on "doing laundry"...171 hits.

I wish more people would volunteer at a NPS site!

Over the summer I am volunteering at the Clara Barton House in Maryland and hope to soon start transcribing some of the correspondence sent to her beginning in 1855, they have to work on. There is alway stuff to do. Every little bit helps!
Well I'm off to work =(
Good topic.
Susan Armstrong

[Becky Morgan]

Re: Laundry?

Amen, Mr. Trent.
I ran into this question while digging up coal mining history. When did I have enough to justify a book? There was surely more out there; there would be inaccuracies; something would be left out...but it was all I could find at the time, put together as best I could, and nobody else was doing it.

As for the lady in the mob cap, etc., that wasn't particularly trying, but it beat having the kid watch TV. Maybe it'll make her think about 18th-century people, and someday, on down the line, she'll pick up a book or search the net for more and better information. IIRC, some of the Centennial battle scenes feature Confederates in Texaco gray. Those who have stayed in the hobby do much better now, and the point is that they neither said "Aah, close enough" nor gave up because their clothing wasn't right.

On the other hand, I can picture the same woman dressed in more or less correct style, perhaps made with fabric that's only plausible and not really a documented pattern, wearing accessories crocheted of not quite the right thickness of thread, sewing by hand but with the wrong kind of needle and a thimble made fifty years after the period. Somebody would no doubt stop to complain about her impression, even though the differences wouldn't affect the way she is working or be obvious to anyone who didn't have an intimate knowledge of the period. Does having her there in an imperfect setting working with materials that only look correct damage the public's understanding of history so much that the museum should only display a few needles, a hank of thread and a shred of cloth and expect people to be fascinated?

Give me imperfect but trying, every time. Give me a presenter who, if confronted, can explain that "in 1765, this hadn't been invented yet, but what they actually used was too dangerous for use in a museum setting/impossible to recreate/too fragile for me to use on a daily basis, so this is the best available substitute." Give me someone who can say "I see you're looking at this shawl. A woman of my station in life in 1863 wouldn't have been wearing this particular style at this time of day, but I was getting cold in here and it was handy!" Nobody leaves with the wrong idea. Moreover, a frank, brief and truthful explanation can lead to all kinds of questions about why the item was dangerous, why the one being used replaced the earlier model so completely, why a maid wouldn't have that fine a shawl (but might have snitched it to warm up for a few minutes on a chilly morning when her boss wasn't looking...)

There are also startling moments of enlightenment that may come about if you're willing to try. Passers-by may say " I think you'll find those DID exist in 1765, because I've seen -------'s history; have you read that yet? They weren't terribly common on this side of the Atlantic, but..." or "1863, you say? I have a picture of my great-great-grandmother wearing a shawl that looks just like that, and she certainly wasn't rich. My grandmother had her pattern, an old clipping from some magazine called Godey's..."

So go ahead with the laundry, already! Just skip the plastic tubs and the clearly labeled Fels-Naptha soap:D

[Emmanuel Dabney]

Re: Laundry?

And just so no one thinks I'm a stickler for missions of National Battlefields (many now needing some work)...

All have suggested the heavy reliance of Mrs. M's books because of her more than a decade long amount of research into this subject. It can be difficult to illustrate the operations of laundry because of the expense of materials, the need as Mrs. Mescher says of 50 gallons of water (one wash, one boiling, one rinse) where many places don't have that. This is not to say that things cannot be done. I would think that in many ways just being dressed at the Shirley house would draw people over to you and explain that they were an upper middle class family, slaves, nice home, but still Unionists. Their son was recommended by Grant to West Point. No one here is trying to say don't do laundry, just make sure people understand in this case if you are going to be talking about the Shirley family that you present that they had people who would do this task. I haven't had anyone yet become offended when I say "Imagine...."

Happy laundering.

[col90]

Re: Laundry?

Ok, some of this discussion kept running through my mind even as I was taking a nap this afternoon, so I figured I"d better set some of my thoughts down.

Becky Morgan said

Give me imperfect but trying, every time. Give me a presenter who, if confronted, can explain that "in 1765, this hadn't been invented yet, but what they actually used was too dangerous for use in a museum setting/impossible to recreate/too fragile for me to use on a daily basis, so this is the best available substitute."
Give me someone who can say "I see you're looking at this shawl. A woman of my station in life in 1863 wouldn't have been wearing this particular style at this time of day, but I was getting cold in here and it was handy!"

Well, first of all, are you going to see everyone you looks at you? and this last is a very easy fix...why are you just grabbing something that was"handy" in the first place.....you prepare for this beforehand, otherwise you end up wearing a modern sweater, since it was "just handy" and you were cold.

Nobody leaves with the wrong idea. Moreover, a frank, brief and truthful explanation can lead to all kinds of questions about why the item was dangerous, why the one being used replaced the earlier model so completely, why a maid wouldn't have that fine a shawl (but might have snitched it to warm up for a few minutes on a chilly morning when her boss wasn't looking...)

Not everyone is going to stop and ask you something..the vast majority of them are going to just look ,and walk away, so yes, people will be leaving with the wrong idea. And as for as the shawl? Why would a maid be wearing her "boss'" shawl anyway? Doesn't the maid have her own clothes? And wouldn't she have come prepared? To me, this falls right in the category of women with modern short hair wanting to make it a part of their impression and just saying "they had a fever"...it IS handy after all, and easy to do.

Traci Manning said

I have done it before and I know that I enjoy it, the kids will enjoy it, and the visitors will hopefully respond well to it.

If you have done it before, did you not research it then? And decide at that point where you could and would draw the line on authenticity?

Now, here is the issue that is simply a double-edged sword… I looked up prices online, saw what I needed to get to do this “right” and knew there was no way that we could ever do this impression “authentically”… so does that mean we can’t do it at all? Here at Vicksburg… the LH crew is not outfitted in perfect, hand sewn, authentic uniforms; so do we axe the program completely because it isn’t 100% authentic? No, that is (at least in my mind) a silly idea.

Here, I agree with you, but this is an issue that many of the areas that do public interpretation are working on. I have personally created knitted items for several of these sites, and the discussion each time has been that they are trying to upgrade things, and get as accurate as they can be.

So do I axe this laundress thing because I can’t do it in a 100% authentic way? No, I really don’t think so… I do what I can with the things I have and if the issue comes up, I explain to a visitor why the things they are seeing are not 100% authentic. With a little explanation, they normally understand and, for the most part, are thrilled that the effort was made to do something special.

Ah, but those machine sewn uniforms are INTERNAL flaws, which are not readily seen by the public. This is a very specialized impression, with very specialized items to create it. Also I have a problem with "if the issue comes up"....the vast majority of spectators that go through a place never broach the subject themselves. If you are doing a formal presentation, wouldn't you be embarrassed to have to say "oh, by the way, my equipment is not right, it's just what I had on hand, but they did wash their clothes, and so that's what we're doing here t0o". Specialized impressions are called that for a reason....most of them have very specialized equipment, and are yes, rather expensive to do right.

And I have to be honest....I would lose respect and interest very quickly if excuses had to be given for things like this.

And, being that this is the National Park Service… tying this back to the mission of the park and the greater history of Vicksburg is always of the utmost importance which is why I asked the question about laundry at the smallpox hospital (Thank you, Karin, by the way!). I am certainly not going to go out to a random area of the field and just start doing laundry, it doesn’t fit and it would confuse the public….

No, but by the very fact that it IS the NPS, I would think you would want to do things right from the very beginning. It sets a very dangerous precedent to just get something together to create a specialized demonstration. What happens when it IS a great hit? Does it just continue, and continue to send people away with the wrong idea? Is the thought then, "It is expensive to get together, so why should we do that when this works perfectly well and the people like it!"

.... but we have something that will work so let’s try the best we can?

We will always have something that will work...why not wait, try to get the correct things together, and do it right from the beginning, so that we do not perpetuate inaccuracies? I always felt that anything worth doing, was worth doing well, and right, and if that means waiting until we can do that, then we wait. If something canNOT be duplicated or reproduced, that's one thing; but when the correct equipment is out there, and we simply cannot afford it at the time, then yes, we wait.

My opinion, my standards.

Colleen

[TraciAnn]

Re: Laundry?

Colleen et al,

While I understand where you are coming from with your opinions and standards (which I have always respected and looked up to), I am confused... When did this turn into a discussion based on the supplies I am using? The original question was to prices that would be paid for laundry service, and the thread grew from there. So, yes I have done this impression before and yes I did research it then but at that point we did not have any prices as we were portraying lower class women doing the laundry of the family we worked for.

I also want to ask you about this statement... "Also I have a problem with "if the issue comes up"....the vast majority of spectators that go through a place never broach the subject themselves. If you are doing a formal presentation, wouldn't you be embarrassed to have to say "oh, by the way, my equipment is not right, it's just what I had on hand, but they did wash their clothes, and so that's what we're doing here too". Specialized impressions are called that for a reason....most of them have very specialized equipment, and are yes, rather expensive to do right."

I understand your point, but please know that I have no intentions of going out and purchasing a plastic wash tub, a gallon of Tide, and hanging the clothes on a neon yellow rope. The items we use are as correct to the period as we have available to us... the washboard had some paint on it from the company and we used sand paper to get it off, but there is still a tiny line of black near the edge, for example. We are using two galvanized wash basins (please don't cringe on that one) but Karin gave me the great suggestion to spray paint it with a flat black paint and make it looked japanned. So, I am making the effort to make what we have better before other things can be purchased.

And what do we do when this is a hit? Well, hopefully if the people like it the news will flow up the chain of command and I will be able to offer my suggestions as to what can be done to make it even better - getting the best stuff possible as money affords, of course.

Also - "so that we do not perpetuate inaccuracies?" I completely agree! I never want people going away thinking the wrong thing! I always hate it when visitors come to me with things they have been told by people that do perpetuate inaccuracies (like women wore 25 layers of clothing, and every woman had a 14 inch waist). I am constantly dealing with that sort of thing... and it's something that I don't think anyone can ever get used to or be fully prepared for.

Well, someone wanted to know how things went... and yes, we did do this today. We had the guys decked out in Federal uniforms and I portrayed a very lower class civilian working with the Federal Army after the fall of the town... We had an awesome time, the guys loved getting in there and doing laundry, showing the visitors how it was done, and I had a wonderful time talking to visitors about the different laundry practices, who did what, when, and where... and why we were there doing laundry today. For the first time in a long time I saw children leave that place talking about wanting to do work when they got home and how mom needed to go buy a wash board, and - more importantly - talking about Vicksburg and there is no greater moment then when you see someone become interested in something you love. I have grown to think that a simple action can lead to wonderful interpretation... knitting a scarf can lead to a discussion about how men from Mississippi fought with Lee and had to deal with very cold winter nights in the north, rolling bandages can lead to a discussion about the horrors of war, medicine, civilian involvement, home front involvement... the list of opportunities is endless.

So, aside from something like this - does anyone else have any suggestions for impressions or demonstrations that I could try?

[ElizabethClark]

Re: Laundry?

I think we've just had a normal conversational morph. :) Hopefully some of the laundry resources shared early on will give the added bits needed to help communicate the standard of living of the very, very working class women who looked at laundry as their main source of income.

Taking the progressive look at the equipment needed can work well. When a particular program is interesting to the public, especially when you can get that feedback all the way to the bean-counters, it's far easier to justify budget requests, fundraising for specific equipment upgrades, etc. I do hear a lot of concern from everyone in the discussion that the information being portrayed is done so in a very carefully thought-out manner, so as not to lead to false impressions.

Colleen's point on the maid's shawl is a great one--there are certain items of material culture that can easily be upgraded without a large expense or effort. It's simple to use a 60x60" square of fringed wool and make a quick working girl's shawl. And, it eliminates the justification, which for so long has been the last resort of those unwilling to upgrade (among which numbers the good members here are not.)

Saving up for the very expensive bits of equipment to upgrade takes time, but I'm hearing all concerned talk about the worthwhile effort. Traci, perhaps, having engaged the gentlemen themselves, they might be willing to help with a specific fundraising effort to purchase laundry cauldrons sooner, rather than later? It might speed up the upgrade effort. I can't imagine being able to buy the equipment needed to outfit a commercial laundry, but getting to the "large domestic laundry" setup could happen faster than you initially thought, judging by the enthusiastic reception.

Vicksburg, from what I understand, has great potential for citizen involvement... long-term refugee families, lots of ersatz substitution, how children coped with a very difficult life under seige... lots and lots of interpretive situations that bring out the non-military side of a very military situation, and would coordinate with the military park's goals.

We should probably break this out into its own thread, but what citizen-focus resources are available in the park (structures, etc) that might be used for future programs?

[Vicksburg Dave]

Re: Laundry?

"Vicksburg, from what I understand, has great potential for citizen involvement... long-term refugee families, lots of ersatz substitution, how children coped with a very difficult life under seige... lots and lots of interpretive situations that bring out the non-military side of a very military situation, and would coordinate with the military park's goals."


Vick NMP's interp goals have been changed recently to incorporate Reconstruction and the occupation of the town, opening us up to expanded interpretation within the park. We are no longer confined to just artillery and rifle demonstrations, but can now delve into civilians in a much more meaningful way, not only with "cave life" during the siege, but what occurred in the town after the union garrison was established. Such an expansion of the interp goals basically gives us carte blanche as to what we can interpret, so long as we have the facilities and resources to pull it off appropriately.

With that in mind, I specifically brought Traci in to expand our interp beyond the military, to delve into the roles civilians played from 1863 through Reconstruction. We have a fine resource in the Shirley House and I have tasked Traci with developing programs on that site. Unfortunately, budgets and bureacracies being what they are, we are working on a shoe string budget. (and I hope you do not mind me sharing this Traci) Traci is paying for many of the items out of her own pocket. I listened in on some of her programs today and she is doing a very good job in making the most of a limited supply of props. Moreover, and as a testament to her living history skills, she is presenting the information in such a way as to nuance her portrayal in the larger context of civilian life in Vicksburg, being careful to explain to the visitors the social status of laundresses in the town. I was especially gratified to hear her tie the Shirleys into her speech, differentiating between their class and her portrayal. Moreover, we had a few volunteers in Union uniform posted with her so that they could give an overview of military events that took place on the site. An added bonus is that we got some really smelly shirts cleaned!

We consider reenactors and living historians to be an important resource, not a burden, and look forward to more commentary and advice that will help us to expand our programs and increase our authenticity. Our programs have steadily improved since Rick Martin took over as chief of operations, and with the addition of a new chief of interp in upcoming months we hope to grow even more. My only regret this season is that I do not have more people like Bill and Traci working with me. They have a significant impact on our programs and I hope they will be around for many summers to come