Addressing Your Husband

[Mammyk]

In public, it would be normal for a man and wife to address each other as Mr. (Name) and Mrs. (Name). My question is, if the husband holds a military rank, does the wife still address him in public as Mister, or by his military rank? She would certainly introduce him by his military rank.

[celtfiddler]

Re: Addressing Your Husband

I'm not 100% certain of the correct etiquette here. As someone who's a modern day military spouse, the only time I address my husband by rank is when we're on base and he's in uniform or if I'm contacting him while he's on duty.

[LindaTrent]

Re: Addressing Your Husband

In public, it would be normal for a man and wife to address each other as Mr. (Name) and Mrs. (Name). My question is, if the husband holds a military rank, does the wife still address him in public as Mister, or by his military rank? She would certainly introduce him by his military rank.

What rank are we talking about? I can't think of many sources that I have where there's an officer, his wife, and his wife talking about him in public. Hank and I were just discussing your question this morning and we both agree that the obvious answer is that she would probably refer to him the same way he would refer to himself in public, but we can't prove it. If he'd introduce himself as "Colonel Smith" then so would she, or "Lieutenant Johnson..." Rank is a position of honor, just like a doctor's wife would refer to her husband as "Dr. Williams..." It is also a way of differentiating between Mr. Smith, the Colonel's brother and Colonel Smith, particularly if the two live in the same community. What she refers to her husband as may also change depending upon whom she is addressing.

Even before the war there was a lot of patriotism in regards to the militia. People turned out to watch militia musters, and the militia usually made a big show of holidays like "the Glorious Fourth!" And it was a big deal to be elected an officer of the men, and be called "Captain" Harper. Actually the editor of the Gallipolis Journal refers to himself as Captain Harper on many occasions in the paper.

One thing that did come to mind was Colonel Remple, of Logan, Ohio. He was *always* referred to as Colonel Remple (though we don't know what his wives called him). I know of other similar circumstances where the man was *always* refered to by his military rank, and I would assume that that would hold true with his wives in public situations, but I can not document that.

Linda.

[CC sewing]

Re: Addressing Your Husband

In public, it would be normal for a man and wife to address each other as Mr. (Name) and Mrs. (Name).

Can anyone tell me why the civilian sector addressed each other so formally? I mean, was it to show respect, or to not sound too casual? Was it just too improper to use the first names? (By the way, I have no objection to this, and am glad to know how to address my hubby properly at reenactments, since he will be attending events with me as soon as his clothing is complete - I just want to know the origins of the custom!)

Another thing (and if this is too much of a hijack, feel free to delete) - I have always thought we would use our given names rather than a fictional one. But our name is of Ukrainian origin and I wonder if it would sound too stange or "foreign" at a reenactment. Our last name is Kostyniuk. Any thoughts on that?

Thanks.

[Michael Comer]

Re: Addressing Your Husband

I, for one, prefer my wife to address me as 'stud muffin' or "Mr. Wonderful":D

[Virginia Mescher]

Re: Addressing Your Husband

Can anyone tell me why the civilian sector addressed each other so formally? I mean, was it to show respect, or to not sound too casual? Was it just too improper to use the first names? (By the way, I have no objection to this, and am glad to know how to address my hubby properly at reenactments, since he will be attending events with me as soon as his clothing is complete - I just want to know the origins of the custom!)

Thanks.

I found the following in The Ladies' Guide to Perfect Gentility by Emily Thornwell (1859).
"How a lady should speak of her husband. - A lady should not say "my husband," except among intimates; in every other case she should address him by his name, calling him 'Mr.' It is equally proper to, except on occasions of ceremony, and while she is quite young, to designate him by his christian name.
Never use the initial of a person's name to designate hime; as 'Mr. P.,' 'Mr. L.,' etc. Nothing is so odious as to hear a lady speak of her husband, or, indeed, any one else, as 'Mr. B.' "

The same advice was given for men addressing their wives, except a man could address his wife as "my dear" in private.

As for using the military rank, I glanced through several diaries and collection of letters and found it varied between the writers and circumstances. Sarah Pryor always seemed to address her husband as "General Pryor" in her memoirs, Reminiscences of Peace and War (published in 1904).

In A Virginia Girl in the Civil War, 1861-1865 Being a Record of the Actual Experiences of the Wife of a Confederate Officer edited by Myrta Lockett Avary (published in 1902) the woman always addressed her husband, when talking about him, by his given name and never by his rank or last name.

Mary Custis Lee, wife of General Lee, addressed her husband in various letters to other people, as, Mr. Lee, General Lee, or the General.

This was only a cursory check and others might have other findings.

[LindaTrent]

Re: Addressing Your Husband

There is a section in the 1885 Edition of Hill’s Manual that addresses the issue of how to address others. While I admit that this is 20+ years too late, it probably still applies, or at least give some clues as to what kind of things to search for.

How to Address Others. -- Nicknames.

Use the title, when speaking to others, whenever possible. Thus, addressing John Brown, a Justice of the Peace, say, “Squire;” Dr. Bell, you will address as “Doctor;” Mayor Williams, as “Mayor;” Senator Snow, as “Senator;” Governor Smith, as “Governor;” Professor Smith, as Professor,” etc.

Before all public bodies, take pains to address those in authority very respectfully, saying to the presiding officer, “Mr. President,” or if he be a Mayor, Judge, or Justice, address him as “Your Honor,” etc.

When stopping by the house of a friend, ascertain the Christian names of all the children, and of those servants that you frequently have to address; and then always speak respectfully to each, using the full Christian name, or any pet name to which they are accustomed…

Husbands and wives indicate pleasant conjugal association existing where they address each other in the family circle by their Christian names, though the terms of respect, “Mr.” and “Mrs.,” may be applied to each among strangers. When speaking of each other among near and intimate relatives, they will also use the Christian name; but among general acquaintances and strangers, the surname.

Never call anyone by a nickname, or a disrespectful name. Treat all persons, no matter how lowly, in addressing them, as you would wish to be addressed yourself…

When speaking to a boy, under fifteen years of age, outside of the circle of relatives, among comparative strangers, call him by his Christian name, as “Charles,”… Above that age, if the boy has attained good physical and intellectual development, apply the “Mr.” as “Mr. Brown,”… To do so will please him, will raise his self-respect, and will be tendering a courtesy which you highly valued when you were the same age.

It is an insult to address a boy or girl, who is a stranger to you, as “Bub” or “Sis.” Children are sometimes very sensitive on these points, resenting such method of being addressed, while they very highly appreciate being spoken to respectfully. Thus if the child’s name is unknown, to say “My Boy,” or “My Little Lad,” “My Girl,” or “My Little Lady,” will be to gain favor and set the child a good example in politeness… Among relatives, nicknames should not be allowed. Pet names among the children are admissible, until they outgrow them, when the full Christian name should be used.

Linda.

[LindaTrent]

Re: Addressing Your Husband

I tried to edit my previous post and it wouldn't let me, so I'll just add it here.

Another thing I have always thought we would use our given names rather than a fictional one. But our name is of Ukrainian origin and I wonder if it would sound too stange or "foreign" at a reenactment. Our last name is Kostyniuk. Any thoughts on that?

For what it's worth, I've almost always changed my name (both given and sur) because neither were typical in the period. Linda began to become more common (though still relatively rare till the 1940s) after the Mexican War when soldiers returned home and had families and named their children after famous battles and/or ladies that they remembered. And became immensely more common after Buddy Clark's 1940s song "Linda."

While there may have been some people with the surname of Tope who lived in the Southern states, it would have been extremely rare. Heck, it's not all that common in the northern states either, for that matter. So usually I chose to change both my first and my maiden name. I usually just look at the 1860 census for the area and pick a typical first and last name for the time and place that my character is from.

The nice thing is, 99% of the time you don't use your first name anyway, but you still want to have a period sounding one. Just my two cents worth.

Linda.

[CC sewing]

Re: Addressing Your Husband

Thanks for all of the information.

I see your point about the names. I'll see if I can find some inspiring ones from names of people in the Chicago area back then.

[Mammyk]

Re: Addressing Your Husband

[QUOTE=LindaTrent;64144]What rank are we talking about? I can't think of many sources that I have where there's an officer, his wife, and his wife talking about him in public.
QUOTE]

My husband is a Captain. I believe if I were to refer to him to others I would refer to him as Captain (Surname). The one exception would be if we had children, as that would obviously be the informal "father". However, I'm still stumped on how to address him when we are out in public together. While "Stud Muffin" and "Mr Wonderful" would inflate his ego I'm sure .... That's not exactly what I'm looking for ;)

Also...when asking "what rank are we talking about" How would this relate to uncommissioned officers?

[Mammyk]

Re: Addressing Your Husband

Let me clarify when I say I'm stumped....Should I be calling him Mr (Surname) or Captain (Surname)?

[Robert A Mosher]

Re: Addressing Your Husband

Thanks for all of the information.

I see your point about the names. I'll see if I can find some inspiring ones from names of people in the Chicago area back then.

Illinois actually offers you a unique historical example - John Basil Turchin. Born in the Ukraine as Ivan Vasiliyevich Turchinoff, he was an officer in the Tsarist army serving at one time as aide to the Tsarevitch (crown prince) and also as an engineer working on fortifications in the area of the Baltic Sea during the Crimean War. He emigrated to the United States after that war with his wife (daughter of his first colonel) and anglicized his name to John Basil Turchin.

It's an example that might offer an opportunity to tell people more about the history if emigration to this country and the contributions made by these immigrants. (BTW - one of my best friends in high school once told me that his family changed their name when the came from the Ukraine in the early 20th Century - he had seen the original name and confessed that he couldn't even pronounce it compared to the new familiy name of Cooper! )

Robert A. Mosher

[annmaddox]

Re: Addressing Your Husband

OK, so I would address my husband as Mr. Maddox in public.
But, when at my tent w/ daughters, even though others are around given the nature of encampments, would this be considered public?
It's my temporary home, soo...
I tend to address him as Mr Maddox at dances, social, church, etc.
Brad or Lovey or something around tent, playing w. kids etc.
Is this correct?

Ann Maddox
Palmetto Soldiers' Relief Society
Ferguson's Artillery

[Parault]

Re: Addressing Your Husband

I don't know if this will help or not,but, According to " The Ladies Book Of Etiquette Fashon and Manual Of Politeness " Written in 1858, first published in 1860 and reprinted in 1870. There is a paragraph in the miscellaneous chapter toward the end of the book concerning speaking to gentleman. It says

" Never speak of gentleman by their first name unless you are related to them. It is very unlady-like to use the surname,without the prefix, Mr. To hear a lady speak of Smith,Brown,Anderson,instead of Mr. Anderson or Mr. Smith sounds extremly vulgar,and is a mark of low breeding"

I knew that my wife had a book somewhere that concerned etiquette. Now if I could just get her to read it.

[Mammyk]

Re: Addressing Your Husband

OK, so I would address my husband as Mr. Maddox in public.
But, when at my tent w/ daughters, even though others are around given the nature of encampments, would this be considered public?
It's my temporary home, soo...
I tend to address him as Mr Maddox at dances, social, church, etc.
Brad or Lovey or something around tent, playing w. kids etc.
Is this correct?

Ann Maddox
Palmetto Soldiers' Relief Society
Ferguson's Artillery

This is an interesting point - putting tent life aside, and putting yourself into the 19th century home rather. When it's the immediate family = Father, mother, son , daughter.....when the father and mother are alone, they would be more intimate with their name calling ...first name, My Love, etc. Would they still be inclined to be that intimate in front of the children? Or would they revert back to the more formal? I have read early 19th century literature where both was used, first name and Mr/Mrs. Surname with children present...but nothing more intimate.