What do you look for in civilian events?

[LindaTrent]

Miss Maggie wrote "I don't mean to turn this into a discussion about what we should be looking for in events."

Good topic! In fact, one that I was going to bring up anyway. For me it's good old fashioned first person action and interaction, with fully developed characters with shared memories and backgrounds. Of course they need to be in a period situation with period things to do, around other people who want the same thing, and have done the same so we can interact in a period fashion talking and doing things that would have been important to the people of the period. The more pristine the site the better.

Linda.

[Hank Trent]

Re: What do you look for in civilian events?

Oh what the heck. Here's what I look for.

1) Reliability and honesty from the organizers. As a participant, if I'm expected to spend several weeks researching and studying a topic I wouldn't otherwise care about, invest maybe several hundred dollars in event-specific gear or clothing, and travel four or five hundred miles, I expect an equal commitment from the organizer to keep their promises.

When I get there, I don't want to see the organizers let the worst participants take over and dumb down the event, and I especially don't want the organizers to set up "bait and switch" rules--promise one thing to look hardcore, then let something else happen to keep the majority happy.

2) An event where what I enjoy doing is actually preferred. I want to try to give the illusion of being someone from the period. And I'd like to get to experience that from others, too. In other words, I don't want to go to an event where that's just "allowed." I want to go where it's actually wanted or, better yet, required.

Otherwise, it takes more emotional energy to figure out who doesn't want you around, who was reenacting an hour ago but is taking a break now, or how to get away from those who demand you be modern, than to actually do what's supposed to be the hard part--the reenacting.

It's one reason I like talking to spectators as much or more than reenactors, at most m/a/c events. Spectators are more open-minded. A lot of reenactors at those levels have already decided exactly what level of accuracy other reenactors are "supposed" to have, and heaven forbid you don't fit their pre-conceived notions.

3) An event that's challenging. The only way to give the illusion is to have a chance for it to fail. I'd rather try and fail, than cruise through something so easy there's no challenge.

For example, at an event a few years ago, I portrayed a lawyer. But all I actually did was hang out with my family in a relative's house, until the battle moved away from my home. It was fun enough, but I couldn't really fail at seeming like a lawyer, since all I had to do for that part of the illusion was say "I'm a lawyer."

This year, I'm portraying a lawyer again, only now I'm planning and arguing a case in front of a judge and jury. Much more chance to look like a fool; much more fun if I do give some tiny bit of an illusion that there's a 19th century lawyer there.

4) But the bottom line is, ideally, I want to go to an event where everybody seems to be pulling together to accomplish the same thing. It's perfect if it's everyone at the event. It's okay if at least a little subset of people who hang together are doing it at a larger event.

It's like pornography or good art. Hard to define, but you always know it when you see it. Lots and lots of flaws just fall away and don't matter, if there's that spark, and the magic that happens.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Drygoods]

Re: What do you look for in civilian events?

Mr. and Mrs. Trent,

Oh, how I can agree with all that you've said. It's a tough call to be brief in a description of what one looks for, what's wished for most. I want to go to an event where I will find equals to my own, finding people well read in period culture. I want to be in a site that has period construction and furnishing, not entering a room and finding a big table that screams 1900 at me with stainless steel flatware; in other words, I want to enter a room and not spot something that doesn't belong and want to hide it in a closet. I want all that I say, hear, and see to be 'of the period.' I want to find someone like me who will gush on and on about how great Mrs. Harrison Otis Grey, or Fanny Fern writes books and columns.:p I want to walk away with a fantastic glow, that rush you get when you've had a great weekend, and it takes you a week to get over what a fantastic time you've had, and how every little, tiny, effort you made was worth it.:D You know what I mean, where you return home and can talk of nothing else but the event, for days and days to your spouse, and he get's so tired of your blather that he just knows to nod and reply, yes dear.;)

But the most important thing I want to find is a general dose of humility among all there. Nothing ruins a good interpretive event more than people with fat heads struggling for power. I don't give a tinker's cuss who wrote what, or how long they've been in the hobby, or what foundation they are from, or who is the big wheel organizer. What matter's to me is that the individuals remain in character and be pleasant, attentive company to all, with a generous spirit and a willing hand to help and welcome the new guest, and generally intend that everyone has a good time there, and all return home delighted.

[Parault]

Re: What do you look for in civilian events?

Well said Mrs. Peebles I concur with your thoughts.

[Silvana Siddali]

Re: What do you look for in civilian events?

Good questions & observations. I agree that civilian coordinators have to be straightforward about what the setting will be like. For example, it would be helpful to know exactly which modern intrusions will be present & whether / how we might be expected to cope with them. Since this is the AC forum, there is no need to discuss such mainstream inconveniences as portapotties, tent cities, heavy campers, etc., but that's exactly the kind of thing one would need to know ahead of time to make an informed decision. This is especially true if the event is more than 5-6 hours away.

Good civilian events have enough activities & interactions to keep all of the participants busy and interested, but not so much that there's no chance at developing some spur-of-the-moment scenarios. My favorite moments were unplanned, in fact; the time the Gum Springs Serenaders decided to visit us at the McKee House at Athens, 2005, which was absolutely wonderful and so unexpected. Everyone in the room fell into the 19th century, even some people who had never felt comfortable with first-person before.

The best events in my memory were those that took place in a real historic setting, with very few or no modern intrusions, with enough outside interaction (specifically with people I didn't know at all) to keep things lively, enough quiet time / down time to allow me to have unexpected experiences, and a reasonable amount of pleasant and friendly conversation.

It's nice when there are some natural reasons to interact with strangers (having to obtain a military pass, e.g.) because then everyone knows what's expected of her/him & no one feels particularly lost or on the spot. Those interactions then make it easier to slip into the 19th century later, when unplanned situations arise.

[Csayankee]

Re: What do you look for in civilian events?

I would love a Civilian Event were we are a community, but run our own house, etc. Like Plymouth or similar sites, we work together and inter-act but are there is no particular reason. I guess in simple words a running town.

[LindaTrent]

Re: What do you look for in civilian events?

I would love a Civilian Event were we are a community, but run our own house, etc. Like Plymouth or similar sites, we work together and inter-act but are there is no particular reason. I guess in simple words a running town.

Okay, here's a question for everyone who says that we should have a running town, and this isn't the first such post. How authentic do you want the town to be? Since Dan says like Plimouth, do you mean with strict first person action and interaction? Would everyone be expected to ply their trade (i.e. a house with a blacksmith shop behind would have a person working at the forge hammering away on iron or steel; the carpenter would have the tools and be out building homes or barns; the store owner and/or clerk would have a fully stocked store where participants could go in and actually purchase stuff, the farmer would be out with his children and other farm laborers cradling wheat, hoeing the garden, milking the cow, making cheese...?) Or would the homes just be a place for the townspeople to live and today just happens to be everyone's day off?

The problem with events like Shaker Village is there is nothing for the participants to do all day. We can't really work in the barn or the garden, or tend to the animals. The shops are all already manned... so what is one to do all day?

Looking forward to some answers.

Linda.

[Hank Trent]

Re: What do you look for in civilian events?

Would everyone be expected to ply their trade (i.e. a house with a blacksmith shop behind would have a person working at the forge hammering away on iron or steel; the carpenter would have the tools and be out building homes or barns; the store owner and/or clerk would have a fully stocked store where participants could go in and actually purchase stuff, the farmer would be out with his children and other farm laborers cradling wheat, hoeing the garden, milking the cow, making cheese...?) Or would the homes just be a place for the townspeople to live and today just happens to be everyone's day off?

And I'd also add that the existing villages I know are not fully functional. They're only designed to give that illusion to a visitor (if they're even designed for that). But this would seem to be an experience that's wanted for the interpreters, rather than something that interpreters only want to give visitors.

So from a reenactor/interpreter's view, would it be acceptable, for example, to say "I'm going out to milk the cow," walk to the modern building with the modern refrigerator, pull out a quart of milk, pour it in a crock, and return?

Some villages might have a fresh cow, but not any way to cut the grass except what the maintenance men do after hours. Or might have sharp scythes or sheep to let into the yard, but not have horses and a plow for the farmer to do his daily work. Or might have that but not have common tools in the house to repair the door that jams or the gate that won't latch. There's always a large portion of nonfunctional things. And that's not even getting into the liability issues of turning hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of valuable and/or dangerous property over to unknown people to use as they see fit.

What, practically speaking, are reenactors wanting when they talk about a village event? What are they willing to give up, and what are the crucial things necessary to make it "good"?

Personally, I'd happily give up numbers--one household would be fine. I'd very reluctantly give up some functionality if there was at least a day's labor at a period trade available for every man and woman. But I would not be the least bit interested in doing a day's period labor around modern-acting people who deliberately preferred to break the period illusion.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Annette Bethke]

Re: What do you look for in civilian events?

This is exactly what we are trying to do at Henkel Square in Texas; although, it is more of a neighborhood than a town. Last year we did have some issues with what to do. This year we are including, hopefully, a post office and general store and a church picnic on Sunday. All the structures are liveable, and yes there are a few modern intrusions. One of the participants is trying to acquire some small livestock such as a pig and probably some chickens; there is also a garden on site to be worked.

I wish more of you were able to travel the distance to give this event a try; I think it would provide many of the things stated here.

[NoahBriggs]

Re: What do you look for in civilian events?

Ideally, a functional village, with people plying the trades, and a micro economy.

Realistically, a town or household which is indeed having "the day off" for some community celebration - militia picnic day, the Fourth, Washington's birthday, Christmas. This way, you can have limited business, like the store or the blacksmith, but the farmers and the carpenters (as an immediate example) have a legitmate reason to be in town without tools or animals.

Still keep the micro economy in order to help the participants understand how economy works - something noticeably deficient among most reenactors.

Old Bedford Village and Genessee Village hover in my mind as I type this. Genessee is even better because the post-war houses are on the outskirts of town and are easy to ignore. Genessee is laid out with a "town square" and has enough businesses to keep up some sort of commerce the whole weekend, if you throw in vendors on the edges of the square who are selling meats, vegetables and the like.

Even one home works for me - Basically, a civilized version of a PBS ______ House without all the constipation and histrionics of modern lifeways vs. historic lifeways. :sarcastic

[MissMaggie]

Re: What do you look for in civilian events?

I guess I started all this so I should chime in with what I think....

At the moment what I look for in an event is simply being able to actually get to one. Wisconsin doesn't really hold much in the way of good authentic events so I'm left with the more mainstream sort of thing. However, being a beyond broke college student who relies on working weekends I only get to about two or three of those a year. Knowing that my possibilities for events are so slim I don't just not reenact because I cant get to the type of event I want to. Myself and several of my friends simply make the best of it and do things as authentically as possible given the situation. Luckily, at the largest event in town here we've had the luck of getting permission from the people that own the site to, within reason, "play" in the house. By that I mean, we are allowed to use the kitchen and other first floor rooms of the house during visitor hours. Another event has several of my friends and I at a low end of the mainstream event (the whole thing is put on to raise money to maintain the GAR hall in town) where we end up being the servants at the party the town throws for all the event planners. We pride ourselves in personally sticking to first person, serving a reasonably authentic meal and dressing as authentically as we can manage. Then the next day we go down to the event itself and walk around hoping someone realize we are what people really looked like.

Now, remove the money and location factor.... What I want in an event is everyday life. I like to portray a servant, getting that experience is a little difficult when you've got all sorts of other drama removing the lines between employer and employee (and I get enough of that drama in my daily life). Sure a small bit of excitement now and then is fine, but not what I'm wanting the entire event to be. I would say reenacting is my relaxation, but I portray a servant, there is nothing really relaxing about it since I'm the one doing all of the running around usually. Knowing what I like to do within the reenacting world (working class) that requires buildings to work in, people to work for, things to do, people who know how to treat you and so forth. If I have to make some small sacrifices in authenticity I'll do that. So, instead of going out and milking a cow (which I can't do anyway) I have a bottle of milk stashed somewhere, I have to make some changes in the way I'd clean things to allow for fragile originals, or use a few modern looking things to dress a ladies hair. I can live with that. I have enough of an imagination I don't require a pristine environment.

[Beth Crabb]

Re: What do you look for in civilian events?

And I'd also add that the existing villages I know are not fully functional. They're only designed to give that illusion to a visitor (if they're even designed for that)....

What, practically speaking, are reenactors wanting when they talk about a village event? What are they willing to give up, and what are the crucial things necessary to make it "good"?

Hank Trent

This brings to mind the Ohio Village. Since it is for all intent and purpose 'closed' , it could/would/should be available. With hotel, mercantile, Masonic Lodge, town hall, doctor's home and office, blacksmith shop, livery stable, school & farm house numerous occupations are available. While not fully functional some buildings come close.
In an ideal world this setting could provide a fantastic event. But then reality sets in.
What about the HUGE stadium that was built several years ago that looms over the village with it's intrusive structure and lighting. And that is in the off season, when a game is on the lights, noise & traffic would make any attempt at an event just a joke.
And to approach the 'powers that be' that have control over the Village and work with them to set up such an event??? No thank you.

However, if anyone does arrange the ideal event with a store front or mercantile, we will be more than happy to supply the merchandise & store clerks. :p

Sincerely,
Beth Crabb

[LindaTrent]

Re: What do you look for in civilian events?

I wish more of you were able to travel the distance to give this event a try; I think it would provide many of the things stated here.

Hi Annette,

I'd love to come to your event, but unfortunately I've been committed to another event the same weekend -- a small 1888 reunion event in Gettysburg. (yeah, off season :tounge_sm)

Linda.

[Spinster]

Re: What do you look for in civilian events?

Everyday life, in houses--with a trade.

And so very few folks really have a trade, or even a modicum of stick-to-it-ness on a simple project. Its been several years now, but I saw a group of competent ladies in a fine setting virtually abandon the stated project of the day (a quilt in the frames) to pursue their own needlework or agendas. Certainly a pain for the person who went to all the work to get the quilt in the frame since it was difficult to transport half finished---and quilting is not a difficult period skill.........okay, good quilting is harder, but practice makes perfect.

If the buildings and material culture are basically 19th century, I'm not going to get really cranked about modern intrusions like the looming stadium Beth mentioned, though I'd rather there not be a game there at the same time--its a simple limitation of the site.

More problematic with trades (at least with my trade) is time duration---while I used to be strong and industrious enough to dye cloth or yarns in a weekend event setting, now its hardly worth while to haul the necessary plunder for anything less than 3-4 solid days of hard work. Many tasks are multi-day projects---transporting a half made cooped barrel would have to be a pain as well.

[Annette Bethke]

Re: What do you look for in civilian events?

Hi Annette,

I'd love to come to your event, but unfortunately I've been committed to another event the same weekend -- a small 1888 reunion event in Gettysburg. (yeah, off season :tounge_sm)

Linda.

Yes, I know :(. I will definately let you know the date sooner if we decide to do it again :).