Shaved legs

[LindaTrent]

Re: Shaved legs

Also, modern women wear garments which expose our underarms on occasion; ladies of the 1860s didn't.

Um, ball gowns? If a lady is dancing with a taller husband her hand might be on his shoulder which would expose her underarm.

For what it's worth I used to always shave my underarms with my father's razor, that is until one day I cut through the skin. :cry_smile No more shavers for me. Straight razors can do at least that much, if not more damage, perhaps that's how 19th century ladies felt. :D

Linda.

[Becky Morgan]

Re: Shaved legs

By golly, I forgot about ball gowns (our folks weren't the ball gown type :) ) I'm looking at some very old sketches of balls, but no one has a barely-there top on in anything yet. Know what you mean, though. While sketch artists tend to make things smoother and grander than real life, surely if armpit hair were not to be seen they'd refrain from drawing it...AHA! Harper's Pictorial History of the Civil War, the frontispiece. Lady Liberty holds her sword point down in her right hand, a furled flag in her upraised left, sleeves rolled up all the way, and by golly, she has hair in the armpit of the upraised arm. It's not a huge amount, but too much to be shading.

As to razors, my grandfather (b. 1888) shaved with a straight razor right up until he had a stroke that kept him from shaving himself (1958.) We still have his shaving mug, razor and strop. It's hard enough to imagine someone working around his own throat while looking in a mirror. Getting to underarms, behind knees and so on would be a real chore.

[30th IL]

Re: Shaved legs

Could the wealthier of society have had the shaving done by servants? This would've eliminated the behind the knees approach when self-shaved.? This could be a 21st interpretation but it just seems to me that if within means, on those special occasions (honeymoon, etc) that the leg hair (and armpit hair?) would have been removed. Perhaps well-to-do at this point (the civil war left them destitute) my third great grandparents spent their honeymoon week at the Waldorf-Astoria (just newly opened) in NYC in Sept. 1836 and I have difficulty thinking she would have been "hairy" during this interlude...but, what do I know.....(how I wish I could talk with them!)

[Gary of CA]

Re: Shaved legs

Here's something written by Napoleonic Era British officer John Kincaid (95th Regt):

"A French officer rushed out of their ranks and made a dash at one of ours, but neglecting the prudent precaution of calculating the chances of success before striking the first blow, it cost him his life. The officer he stormed happened to be a gigantic Highlander about six feet and a half--and, like most big men, slow to wrath, but a fury when roused. The Frenchman held in his hand a good small sword, but as he had forgotten to put on his spectacles, his first (and last) thrust passed by the body and lodged in the Highlander's left arm. Saunders's blood was now up (as well as down), and with our then small regulation half-moon sabre, better calculated to shave a lady's-maid than a Frenchman's head, he made it descend on the pericranium of his unfortunate adversary with a force which snapped it at the hilt. His next dash was with his fist (and the hilt in it) smack in the adversary's face, which sent him to the earth; and though I grieve to record it, yet as the truth must be told, I fear me that the chivalrous Frenchman died an ignominious death, viz. by a kick. But when one's own life is at stake, we must not be too particular."

The passage in bold eludes me but is relevant to this discussion. I understand their sword wasn't very well designed to lop off heads, but shave a lady's maid?

[Carolann Schmitt]

Re: Shaved legs

For those of you who have recent experience in and around Europe, several acquaintances who have traveled to the region say that shaving is much less common in France and elsewhere on the Continent. Has this been your experience also?

It is indeed much less common parts in other parts of the world, including large portions of Europe, South Asia and Africa. It's also much less common in parts of this country where certain ethnic backgrounds, customs, and religious practices are still very strong. Some of the reasons for not removing body hair are founded on beliefs and practices that go back hundreds if not thousands of years.

[Virginia Mescher]

Re: Shaved legs

Could the wealthier of society have had the shaving done by servants? This would've eliminated the behind the knees approach when self-shaved.? This could be a 21st interpretation but it just seems to me that if within means, on those special occasions

Matt,

Several people have mentioned my book Powdered, Painted and Perfumed where I explained depilatories, US customs, what was considered superfluous hair on women, and how it was removed. In the primary sources I researched (with many direct quotes in the book), none mentioned shaving.

Waxing was mentioned but it was considered old fashioned and the author stated that "This [waxing] demands an amount of heroism to which modern belles are rarely equal. . ." None the less, instructions were also given for waxing. Authors did mention that depilatories not be used on nose or ear hair. Plucking was also mentioned. Shaving was never mentioned in any primary source, except for men.

As a note of interest. Most of the ingredients of period depilatories included quick lime and some form of a strong base such as potash or lye. One even contained muriatic acid. Look on modern depilatories and you will find some the the same ingredients only with modern chemical names.

At times. I think that everyone must refrain from forcing their 21st century sensiblities upon the 19th century life that they try to portray. What we consider to be unpleasant could be the normal way of life for those in the 19th century. Yes, there were problably exceptions but should we only dwell on those exceptions and base our impression on those few instances or should we try to incorporate what was normal for the time?

In 100 years, will our decendents be researching and find a book with pictures of people with multiple piercings, and spiked hair and bodies covered with tattos and then decide, basing their research on those pictures are an indication of how everyone looked? :) I realize that the last statement is an exaggeration but how far is it from the truth of the practices of some researchers?

[Hank Trent]

Re: Shaved legs

At times. I think that everyone must refrain from forcing their 21st century sensiblities upon the 19th century life that they try to portray. What we consider to be unpleasant could be the normal way of life for those in the 19th century. Yes, there were problably exceptions but should we only dwell on those exceptions and base our impression on those few instances or should we try to incorporate what was normal for the time?

In 100 years, will our decendents be researching and find a book with pictures of people with multiple piercings, and spiked hair and bodies covered with tattos and then decide, basing their research on those pictures are an indication of how everyone looked? :) I realize that the last statement is an exaggeration but how far is it from the truth of the practices of some researchers?

I totally agree. One thing that occurs to me... were the depilatories and such aimed at all women, or at women who had excessive dark, thick bodyhair? More of a rhetorical question than anything, but just because some women removed hair doesn't mean that all did or wished they could.

It's fashion, plain and simple, and fashion comes and goes. Today, for example, leg hair on the average woman in America is apparently disgusting and must be shaved off, but forearm hair isn't.

But more surprising is the fact that when fashion changes, the average person's perception of beauty changes along with it. I think that we can safely say, whatever the norms were of the 1860s, the majority of men and women of the era actually did perceive them as, well, normal. If we can't, it's our failing, not theirs.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Charles Heath]

Re: Shaved legs

But more surprising is the fact that when fashion changes, the average person's perception of beauty changes along with it.

Hank,

The funny part of all that is seeing a woman in modern clothing, and wondering how she would look in period attire. Having heard a few dozen reenactors say the same thing over the years, this thought process may be more common than not.

[Becky Morgan]

Re: Shaved legs

... One thing that occurs to me... were the depilatories and such aimed at all women, or at women who had excessive dark, thick bodyhair?...
Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

An examination of stories, children's book illustrations, Victorian fairy tales and the line convinces me that Fair still equaled Good. The princess/Cinderella/damsel in distress was always delicate and pale with blonde hair. (As my son often grumbles, "You know. Saxon!") The male villain was a dark rough-looking sort. The prince was the Fair-Haired Boy. (But NOT red. I have period advertisements from the Wheeling Intelligencer touting men's hair dye guaranteed to eliminate all traces of red, probably because it was associated with the then very unfashionable Irish.)

Also, dark hair against light, or powdered, skin shows more and would likely be considered more undesirable, as it is today.

[Virginia Mescher]

Re: Shaved legs

One thing that occurs to me... were the depilatories and such aimed at all women, or at women who had excessive dark, thick bodyhair? More of a rhetorical question than anything, but just because some women removed hair doesn't mean that all did or wished they could.

Hank Trent

Of the references I have read specifically mention women using depilatories.

I did go back and read several sources more carefully to see if I had missed something and did find one quote on shaving. It was from Lola Montez. "But the most ridiculous mistake which women make in this business of removing the superfluous hair with a razor, for that promotes the unnatural growth, and even though the shaving were done every day, the blue or black roots of the hair show further than the hair itself." I guess that this does show that some women did try to shave but again the term "superfluous hair" is in question.

[BrettKIllinois]

Re: Shaved legs

In 100 years, will our decendents be researching and find a book with pictures of people with multiple piercings, and spiked hair and bodies covered with tattos and then decide, basing their research on those pictures are an indication of how everyone looked? :) I realize that the last statement is an exaggeration but how far is it from the truth of the practices of some researchers?

But that's how I look, and i want to be remembered....

[Grabenkater]

Re: Shaved legs

For those of you who have recent experience in and around Europe, several acquaintances who have traveled to the region say that shaving is much less common in France and elsewhere on the Continent. Has this been your experience also?

From my experience European women shaving is more common than those who do not shave. My wife is European, and she has been asked this question many times by Americans. Everytime she is asked this, she is suprised that Americans believe that European women do not shave.

[Southernlady1862]

Re: Shaved legs

It's fashion, plain and simple, and fashion comes and goes. Today, for example, leg hair on the average woman in America is apparently disgusting and must be shaved off, but forearm hair isn't.

]

Actually, It was quite a shock to me, after being homeschooled all these years, to start college and realize that the majority of girls shave their forearms now! It's crazy! I'm one of very few that do not. I mean, come on it's baby hair!

[Sweatshop Tailor]

Re: Shaved legs

Grabenkater - this may also be a generational or regional thing in Europe. I can attest that in the early 1990s most English women (in their 20s ) who I knew were neither shaving their arm pits nor their leg above the knee.

More generally, and relevant to the period:

Regarding period risque photography, the few 'naughty' American cdv's of the period in my collection all tend to mask areas where body hair would show - both through wearing white tights and not showing under arm areas. See the attached cdv (nothing worthy of censorship I assure you!). Perhaps this was because there was body hair there to see?

[claynpendleton]

Re: Shaved legs

Hello,
I actually heard a presentation on this very subject in a material culture class in grad school...
According to one of my fellow history grad's research, the majority of women (esp. the middling and lower classes) most likely did not shave their legs until advances in safety razors during the 20th cent. From the 1920's through the 50s razor companies began to target females in their marketing.
What was interesting about the research was that there is some evidence that waxing was used by those that could afford it. She only made a brief mention of this, but anyone who is interested might do further research.
-Clay