Stuff in Pockets

[PetePaolillo]

Re: Stuff in Pockets

Just to clarify....most soldiers are citizens first.

Don't forget pocket Bibles. There are many accounts of Soldiers caarying Bibles in their pocket. Here is one from Mary Chestnut's Diary

http://books.google.com/books?id=WojvfHAX4lgC&pg=PA71&dq=in+the+pocket+stopped+a+bullet+civil+war&cd=1#v=onepage&q&f=falseAt

And there were soldiers who carried other items in their pockets, they did not want their Mother's to know of.

At times the regiment shifts its position, to right or left, sometimes diminishing the distance. During much of the time the men experience heavy artillery as well as musketry fire. At the outset a lad threw away a pack of cards, saying, " I don't know they would bring me any bad luck, but I wouldn't want to be killed and have them found in my pocket, and mother hear of it." He lived the war through, but never again so disburdened himself.

http://books.google.com/books?id=QMoLAAAAIAAJ&dq=civil%20war%20soldier%20in%20%20pocket&pg=PA186#v=onepage&q&f=false

[Hank Trent]

Re: Stuff in Pockets

I do agree that documentation is lacking but these were things not thought about then nor are they today.

I see Joe's point, though. Usually the focus here is more on what evidence does exist, if any, or if none, then how we can best make an educated guess at the answer, rather than collecting examples of what reenactors do.

I think what th thread has revealed is that based on one's impression that the items could vary greatly but that there are some items a bit more common than others.

Do you mean among reenactors, or among people in the 1860s? As Joe noted, they may be the same, but not necessarily. The lists of things that reenactors carry isn't necessarily the best evidence of what actually was done.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[toptimlrd]

Re: Stuff in Pockets

Hank,

I too understand Joe's point which is why I said I was not trying to pick a fight Like you though I find there is little hard documentation and as a historian I have to use the evidence to determine what may have been common. For example what was the designed purpose ofan item? Take the folding "pocket knife" for example, by definition it was designed to be carried inthe pocket. Handkerchiefs were very common and very utilitarian. I also ask what items would the person need for the situation and wht would the likely method of transport be? I wouldn't carry a canteen and haversack if I was simply going to run errands around town (i.e. the store, post office, tavern, etc) so I wouldn't have need of anything too large. Here's an example I left off deliberately, the pocket comb. When we look at the period certain things stand out when it comes to hair, men usually wore hats outside so wind was not an issue, secondly the hair was usually dressed in some manner which allowed the hat to be removed without mussing the hair (pomades and such); therefore my conclusion is that men would likely not carry a comb as a general rule (I could be wrong). In fact I would think that most people of the period would not want to be loaded down with "stuff" and only carry that which they needed. Wallets were rather common and if I needed to carry some sort of papers or money, it would stand to reason I would have a wallet. If I were a smoker and wished to have something to smoke I likely would also have matches. Now if it were a prolonged trip where I had some sort of baggage, much of this would likely be in that baggage but if I were not going to be gone long enough to carry baggage then it may be on my person. Let's say I went into town for the day to pick up supplies and meet friends at the tavern, one may carry a cigar or pipe if they were of the persuasion to enjoy while there OR they may purchase it from the local general store. Once again as a historian we have to look at the actual situation many times to determine PEC.

Pete points out a valid point from Mary Chestnut's diary of soldiers carrying pocket bibles. Does this mean every soldier carried one? Definitely not. Would someone from the period simply going to town to buy goods at the general store put a pocket bible in his coat before leaving just for the sake of having a pocket bible on him? Probably not. So once again my only point was to answer the question as to what we would have in our pockets if we were in the period is ........ it depends. There really is no right or wrong answer to this as it depends on who we are portraying, what the situation is, and what would be necessary or utilitarion for the situation. As a reenactor I try to be in the mindset of the man I am portraying so what I carry as a reenactor are those items that in my best judgement would hae been carried by the person I am portraying if that makes sense. I only listed the couple of modern items to lay that part out on he table and explain the question of why I would have anything modern on me (similar to the way you carry purification tablets when necessary).

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: Stuff in Pockets

This isn't civilian, but the Gettysburg inventory mentioned earlier, which I hadn't seen in book form before (starts on p. 64): http://books.google.com/books?id=XXM...rchief&f=false

[PogueMahone]

Re: Stuff in Pockets

I think it is safe to say that we make assumptions about what should be in our pockets with very little documentation to back it up. I believe the lack of documentation is more a case of very little research (until now) rather than the non-existence of it.

By the way, I recently noted a comment in a primary source about a "dandy" who combed his hair several times a day. The comment was condescending and meant as a slam, so it isn't likely that the habit was common or considered normal, but it did happen.

My research into watch fobs of the 1860's leads me to believe that they were NOT these little decorative or bejeweled icons dangling from the watch chain as are commonly seen. Watch fobs were initially used to help hold the watch in the pocket, to create resistance against the cloth, and were typically a simple leather tab slightly larger than the actual watch. But my research is limited and I am no expert on the topic.

[OlszowyTM]

Re: Stuff in Pockets

I think it is safe to say that we make assumptions about what should be in our pockets with very little documentation to back it up. I believe the lack of documentation is more a case of very little research (until now) rather than the non-existence of it.

I have to agree with Joe and that our assumptions are further fueled and skewed by how "we" approach event based reenacting. To do an event we are almost all traveling and away from our home. Add to that fact, many male reenactors infrequently cross over to civilian roles & tend to bring with them an ingrained military model of packing to carry everything you need with you, as evidenced by much of the suggestions already put forth in a civilian based forum.

As a result we tend to "figure out" ways to transport stuff and don't always think along the lines of how a civilian may have travelled in the day or where our character would have started his/her day based on the event scenario.Are you starting from a home in town to go somewhere in town? Are you going to town from an outlying farm? If so, what is the purpose of your trip? Are you delivering or buying goods? Is it going to necessitate an overnight?

A farmer is going to carry different items and carry them differently than a businessman. For instance, today, how many of the items mentioned as appropriate for pockets end up in businessman's briefcase during the course of the work day? I'm willing to bet "they" caried different stuff at different times too. Since this started with gentlemen, I'm going to share some "travel" thoughts from the Workwoman's Guide:

Both include several of the common items mentioned as "pocket trash" mentioned above:
TRAVELLING PORTE FOLIO. PLATE 24. FIG. 41.
This is convenient for travelling, when there is not sufficient room for a desk ; it is made of card or book board, and covered with black silk or paper. Under the part marked A, is a porte folio for paper, the two parts being connected together by means of a wide ribbon all round. The four flaps lay over and tie across with ribbon. On the part, A, are places for sealing wax, pencil, pens, knife and paper knife, all in one, and at the corner a piece of ribbon sewed on in a circle, and made to draw up like a bag, to contain wafers.

GENTLEMAN'S TRAVELLING DRESSING CASE. PLATE 24. FIG. 44.
This is made of leather of any length, according to the number of things put in. It should be the width of the longest of the articles to be put in (say the razors). A row of divisions of the proper sizes are made by a strap of leather carried all along the case in which the razor strop, boot hooks, razors, scissors, knife, tweezers, pencil, tooth brush case, shaving brush, and soap case are put. The flaps fold over, and the whole wraps up and ties round. The articles should be bought before the case is made, as the divisions can then be formed exactly to fit.

The answers are there, just hiding, waiting to be found and situationally applied.

[Donna Seale]

Re: Stuff in Pockets

I noticed in the pocket contents list that many rings were placed there. Would they have removed their rings because you can't get them off of a body in early decomposition? (bloating)
I just wanted to bring attention to the fact all the items in the pockets may not have been there all the time.
Thoughts on this?
Donna Seale
Williamsburg VA