Mid-19th Century Religion

[amity]

Re: Mid-19th Century Religion

Thanks, Mr. Tyler. I did see that, but it is not what I meant, quite. The chart in DeBow's had really specific breakdowns like "General Baptist" versus "Adventist" and "Campbellite" versus "Disciples." I am posting this hoping someone out there will say "Oh, yeah! I remember that." I think it was originally Mrs. Trent who posted a link a year or two ago. It was useful in part because it reflected a period understanding of denominationalism.

[NoahBriggs]

Re: Mid-19th Century Religion

Acouple of good secondary source surveys, left over from my college course "Introduction to American Religious Thought":

Marsden, George M. Religion and American Culture. Harcourt Brace College Publishers, 1990.

Decent intro to the history of Religion in the US, from the first landings at Provincetown/Plymouth and Jamestown to the present day. Takes a look at different denominations and their impact on social programs and so on.

Bruce, Jr., Dickson D. And They All Sang Halleujah - Plain-Folk Camp Meeting Religion, 1800-1845. University of Tennessee Press, Knoxville. 1974.

What it says, and a good survey of the Southern Frontier and the impact of religion. Good read for Confederate reenactors in the Stonewall Brigade.

I think I or someone else mentioned Jewry In the Civil War, which was a 1950s survey. Unfortunately the author was obsessed with numbers and statistics. Thus I could not wade past the first chapter to see if it actually discussed Judaism.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?page=browse&cc=moa&c=moa

That's the link on MOA to search by subject. That's the Primary Source Gold Mine and Mother Lode of Knowledge right there. I went through the list by title, myself and saved the ones that interested me most. A good many are on religion - sermons, analyses, interpretations, &c. Very good to help you get into a period mindset on your chosen topic and be able to argue your historic position with proper rhetoric, as opposed to devolving into Jerry Springer-style screaming matches and ad hominen attacks (aka "flame wars" in current internet jargon). Read anything by Alcott - Louisa May's brother, I think, who had opinions on a lot of topics and ladeled them out heavy in his sermons. Then, as now, discussions of current politics were thinly camouflaged under religious topic.

Read on, MacDuff.

[ElizabethClark]

Re: Mid-19th Century Religion

Slight topic morph--but reading era-appropriate sermons for one's specific denomination is a MUST in my mind for anyone planning to do preaching in a historic setting. Preaching styles in various sects do evolve over time... I know for my own faith, modern adherents would not really recognize or be comfortable with the mid-century preaching styles and meeting formats most common for "us". The best historic religious experiences I've had have been in settings where the preacher/minister was extremely well-versed in period sermonizing for his denomination, and could either deliver an actual historic sermon with excellent elocution, or copy the style and content very well.

[Spinster]

Re: Mid-19th Century Religion

The effects of close living quarters, and battle stress cannot be denied----this is only one of many such examples. From the diary of Southern Methodist chaplain John B. McFerrin

The Federals occupied Chattanooga , and for weeks the two armies were in full view of each other. All along the foot of Missionary Ridge we preached almost every night to crowded assemblies, and many precious souls were brought to God. After the battle of Missionary Ridge the Confederate army retreated and went into winter quarters at Dalton, Georgia. During these many months, the chaplains and missionaries were at work--preaching, visiting the sick, and distributing Bibles, tracts, and religious newspapers. There was preaching in Dalton every night but four, for four months; and in camps all around the city, preaching and prayer meetings occurred every night. The soliders erected stands, improvised seats, and even built log churches, where they worshiped God in spirit and in truth. The result was that thousands were happily converted and were prepared for the future that awaited them. Officers and men alike were brought under religious influence. In all my life, perhaps, I never witnessed more displays of God's power in the awakening and conversion of sinners than in these protacted meetings during the winter and spring of 1863-64.

[Spinster]

Re: Mid-19th Century Religion

Slight topic morph--but reading era-appropriate sermons for one's specific denomination is a MUST in my mind for anyone planning to do preaching in a historic setting. Preaching styles in various sects do evolve over time... I know for my own faith, modern adherents would not really recognize or be comfortable with the mid-century preaching styles and meeting formats most common for "us". The best historic religious experiences I've had have been in settings where the preacher/minister was extremely well-versed in period sermonizing for his denomination, and could either deliver an actual historic sermon with excellent elocution, or copy the style and content very well.

Most definitely---the modern United Methodist would not recognize the "Shouting Methodist" of the mid-19th century, either in worship style or in theology.

In trying to put together a period worship service, many folks ignore a truth of the time---the great preachers of the period were published--their sermons were bound works that other preachers purchased, and read aloud to their congregations. This was especially true in those denominations that emphasized the importance of an educated clergy. Those sermons are still accessible and readable, and give great insight into the public and spiritual thought of the time.

[hiplainsyank]

Re: Mid-19th Century Religion

A few generalitites. Many Protestant denominations were part of smaller regional organizations rather than national ones. What became the large national denominations we have today were a product of later generations. That doesn't mean they didn't interact with each other, just more loosely than the large, well organized structures of today.

At the same time, nearly every Protestant denomination had sundered ties with their neighbors to the south or north over the issue of slavery. This was a huge issue among many of the Protestant associations in the 1840s-1850s.

[styler]

Re: Mid-19th Century Religion

What became the large national denominations we have today were a product of later generations.

Just to speak to this point: that's not to say there were no "national" churches in the 1860s. The Methodist Episcopal Church was a large antebellum denomination. It suffered a small national schism when the Methodist Protestants formed in 1828. ,had a schism in northeast when the Wesleyan Methodists left, split in to ME and MES churches soon after, and the ME church had to deal with yet another schism when the Free Methodists were formed. Yet I'd have to say that the old "united" ME church was large and the ME and MES on their own at the time of the war were nothing to sneeze at.

Then there was the old Presbyterian Church U.S.A. which had a split into New and Old Schools in the late '30s. While the split had some sectionalism and regionalism the synods were nationally associated with like synods until the war. For examples that counter strict sectionalism and speak to the national connections: the more liberal New School churches tended to be in the north, and Old School south (Stonewall Jackson was an O.S. adherent). But one of the large churches in, I believe, Charleston, S.C., was N.S., while Princeton was an O.S. pillar. I believe "Presbyterians" numbered second to "Methodists" in the 1860 census.

Certainly, absolutely, the smaller denominations deserve attention, but be careful of ignoring the 500-pound gorillas that were around at the time.

[Fiddlebum]

Re: Mid-19th Century Religion

I was mostly interested in knowing how aware people were of Buddhism and Hinduism. I did find out that the first Buddhist temple in the US was built in the 1850s in California, which makes sense. The first Hindu temple didn't come along till the early 1900s.

But. . . we'd had trade & commercial ties with the East for a loooong time, so I'm just curious about who might have been exposed to Eastern religions.


Kim Caudell

[amity]

Re: Mid-19th Century Religion

Kim, I have the impression that educated people were at least aware of the existence of religions such as Hinduism and Buddhism, but my quick impression of the sources I saw while looking for info on demographics inclined me to think that even those with education were not very knowledgeable. The articles I found in DeBow's and Ladies' Repository, for example, looked way off the mark in many respects. And they certainly weren't PC, but what did we expect? You might go to websites with primary sources like Making of America and search on period terms like "Hindoo" and see what turns up.

As far as popular culture goes, I have only references to sideshow acts, etc., to judge by. One or two Muslims brought over to tend to the Camel Corps here, hundreds of Chinese living in relative cultural isolation there, etc. Seems to have been a sea of ignorance among white Americans of all classes, and few ordinary people ever had the chance to actually "meet one." The only arena I can think of where there seems to have been much cultural connection between religions was with African religion in those places where it still survived in some form, like among the Gullah for example. And we know a bit more about what that cultural connection consisted of. Nonetheless, even whites in those areas had some actual familiarity with African religious belief and practice in that hybrid form. Other than that, I can't think of another instance where anything showing real insight seems to have survived.

I know we are far into the land of supposition here, but since no one is coming up with primary source documents to help you, I might as well throw that idea out.

[KarinTimour]

Re: Mid-19th Century Religion

Dear Noah:

Thank you for the secondary resources, will scope them out as time permits.

You wrote: Read anything by Alcott - Louisa May's brother, I think, who had opinions on a lot of topics and ladeled them out heavy in his sermons. Then, as now, discussions of current politics were thinly camouflaged under religious topic.

Louisa May Alcott had no brothers -- her father, Bronson Alcott was a philosopher and educator, but not a minister. He did give "talks" and "conversations" which were published, were listened to by many people and might be what you meant. The only other possible Alcott might have been Frederick, who was born as Louisa May's nephew, but was adopted by her when he was an a.dult so as to be her literary executor and keep track of renewing the copyrights on her books, so that they could support several different family members. I don't know that Frederick was a minister or ever was published, so it's probably Bronson you're thinking of here....

BTW, another period book that we should all be very familiar with is "Pilgrim's Progress" by John Bunyan. My impression is that three books were most likely to be found in most households -- The Protestant Bible, Pilgrim's Progress and the works of Shakespear. But again, it goes back to what impression you're protraying.

Very enjoyable discussion, am learning a lot,
Karin Timour
Period Knitting -- Socks, Sleeping Hats, Balaclavas
Come see me this Remembrance Day at C.J. Daley's store.
Atlantic Guard Soldiers' Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com
Read on, MacDuff.[/QUOTE]

[Becky Morgan]

Re: Mid-19th Century Religion

Whites may have seen African ritual, or surviving remnants thereof, but the surviving accounts seem so patronizing and scornful to a 2007 eye that it is sometimes hard to tell what's going on. I'll have to dig through a couple of local memoirs. Missionaries were also fond of bringing back stories from their travels, but judging by their published remarks in the Wheeling Intelligencer and other local papers, they were hardly objective (and I wouldn't expect them to be.) In other words, it doesn't seem the average person would know a Hindu from a Sikh from a Muslim if they were all Indian.

Speaking of Indians, don't forget us :D The average person seems not to have made any distinction among native Americans. I'd have to look better at Schoolcraft and company, but in the popular press, at least, the Indians are either Christian or "heathen". We can understand why the folks weren't fond of letting whites watch ceremonies, and in some cases even talking about them is not encouraged even today. It's easy to see how a mid-19th century white would get odd ideas about what was going on in the few vague glimpses he or she got.

[Fiddlebum]

Re: Mid-19th Century Religion

Thanks Terre --- that's actually very helpful.

Kim Caudell

[johnf1862]

Re: Mid-19th Century Religion

This has been in the back of my head for a while... Darwin's "The origin of Species".

Being that it was first published in 1859 in England, would there really have been much of an effect on the everyday American citizen during the war?

[amity]

Re: Mid-19th Century Religion

It seems it took awhile for the lines to be drawn on The Origin of Species. It was not universally seen as "hostile to religion" for a few years. It was often presented in something like Deistic terms, as an examination of God's laws at working in nature.

Also, I am not sure how much of an immediate effect it had in the U.S. Most of the initial debate seems to have taken place among scholars and clerics in England, and did not gain widespread public attention even there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaction_to_Darwin%27s_theory

See other online sources listed at bottom.

BTW, I am not even sure when The Origin of Species first became available in the U.S. The first editions in England were only of a couple thousand copies apiece, were quite expensive, and sold mainly to scholars of course. The fourth edition was larger, but did not come out until after the war. The term "evolution" in reference to Darwin's theories was not coined until 1870s, so shouldn't be used in a CW context. The original title was _ON the Origin of Species_ by the way.

Does anyone have any U.S. press coverage of Origin to report?

[Robert A Mosher]

Re: Mid-19th Century Religion

First, allow me to offer my thanks to everyone for an outstanding discussion!

Coincidentally, I am currently reading Karen Armstrong's "The Battle for God" and found her chapter on "Christians: Brave New World (1492-1870)" to be very informative and responsive to many of the questions raised in this discussion. However, the admonition about learning the period vocabulary is good advice and particularly reading period sermons. There is a good deal of such material available via Google Books.

My own situation has made the general topic one of interest because in my role as a civilian journalist from Boston I am a Congregationalist and abolitionist - while as a musket-toting private soldier I am a Protestant Ulsterman married to a Catholic (in a civil ceremony in a small place called Gretna Green in Scotland while on the way to America via a ship from Liverpool)

There was an excellent discussion almost some time ago that I recall tracked down a positive period reference to Mohammadism as originating with an article in a period anthology of essays, so they were aware of Islam (even if only through period romances such as "Ivanhoe" and other books about the Crusades, Saladin, Richard the Lionheart, etc.). Historians have also identified an undetermined population of Chinese who had been adopted into seafaring/trading families from the U.S. Atlantic coast cities by sea captains visiting China ports. One can only assume that such adoptees were raised as Christians if they were not already Christians. Such individuals are often hard to track because of the difficulty of determining the ethnicitiy of someone named "Lee" for example or because the bore "Christian" or Western names.

Robert A. Mosher