How do you motivate others or improve the hobby?

[Kris Ruffino]

Re: How do you motivate others or improve the hobby?

Hey guys,
I am sorry but, I have to agree things do need to be changed in the hobby. Now I will admit that things have changed a lot since the 60's and 70's. Yet so much still needs to be done. At EVERY event it is ya'll that bring across what the Civil War was really like. When people walk through the tent cities and see tents with beds and dressers. Huge pots of stew and rack of lamb they get the wrong impression. Most schools don't really cover the Civil War because of all of the contraversy behind it. The farby behavior needs to be minimized. (And yes I said farby) Like women in camp it didn't happen the way mainstreamers bring it across. They have a women in front of each tent cooking huge meals. I mean come on. Civilian reenactors have a place in the hobby but not in camp with the soldiers. Sorry but the truth hurts. Give your wife the "Hilton" sized tent and you use a shelter half. Sleeping on the ground is not that bad. Also stop drycleaning your uniforms. It is not going to hurt you to wear dirty clothes. The people you are protraying were dirty, smelly, and crawling with bugs. Another thing that can be gotten rid of is all of the brass. You don't need brass on everything. Hell during the war you would have been the first ones shot by sharp shooters. Once again do the people you are protraying some justice. The weren't dumb enough to go into every battle looking like a South Compton pimp. A few small changes would do wonders for any event. Just remember it is up to you to teach our youth about the greatest battle in the world. If you don't do it rught then they will go through life ignorant of the truth. They need to know what the soldiers really went through. They need to see how much they suffered to fight for their beliefs.
Kris Ruffino

Hallo Herr Ruffino! Welcome to the AC Forum! Forum rules require that one's avatar image be of oneself and not a graphic, cartoon, or image of someone else. Please edit yours. Thank you. Curt-Heinrich Schmidt, Moderator

[ElizabethClark]

Re: How do you motivate others or improve the hobby?

Personally, I adore "mainstreamers." I also adore "farbs"--the ones that aren't necessarily hard-case farbs, and the ones that are hard-case.

I love them because if I'm polite and set a good example, I have a chance to show them how much easier it is to have a progressive mindset, ask questions, and improve the internal & external impression.

I even like the heckling clothing mavens. They start out really frustrated when I don't bother to argue, but most come around and start asking real questions after awhile.

There's nothing like the surprise in a woman's eyes when she draws up her first little stretch of gauging, and realizes it looks exactly like my example piece, and that this will be a whole lot easier than using her differential feed serger to attach a skirt! Or when she sees how much better she will look when she shortens her bodice, tightens up the fit, and wears a corset. It's astonishing to them! And they do, 90% of the time, make changes.

Yes, this initial "get 'em hooked" phase has to do with gear. But all through improving the gear, I get a chance to talk up the passion and the interior culture stuff, and help them get motivated to find a passion and impression interest... and that gets them right out of the mainstream, and into a progressive, authentic-based thinking pattern.

One thing folks can do with AARs, that will blend objective fact with a bit of sugar (sugar isn't a bad thing, when kept reasonable!), is to go ahead and point out a few flaws, and add their own ideas for future solutions.

Rather than say, "Parking stunk," it's actually moderately helpful for future event planning if they will say, "The parking areas were unorganized, and this made it hard to get in and out efficiently at the beginning and end of the event. It would have been nice to have one or two guides, directing the parking and making sure the space was used well."

Also--send an AAR to the event organizers. Let them know a concise list of what you really liked about their event, and actual suggestions on things that could be changed for an improvement.

Opinion backed up with actual thought gets the facts across in a positive way... and it's entirely possible to list the "cons" of an event in a non-bashing way. And it's that reasonable, pleasant demeanor that can actually help change the stereotype of "those evil authentics." (For instance, quite a few people are surprised, after talking to me for awhile about clothing or other such things--they'll start talking about evil stitchcounting Thread Nazis, and I smile, and let them know that technically, I'm one of those. And I'm not so bad, right? Of course, I'm a hopeless Mary Sunshine, and that helps. LOL)

Many folks in the mainstream honestly don't know there's a different world out there--one where there are no women and kids in the military areas, etc. Small local living history opportunities, including civilian-only events, are excellent ways to get them to see the big world.

[TeamsterPhil]

Re: How do you motivate others or improve the hobby?

For most in the hobby, AARs are the best way to gauge the success or failure of an event. This information can then be used to evaluate the next offerings of the organizers. If a pattern of good or bad events becomes evident, the rank and file will either keep coming or find better events.

The worst thing for the common reenactor is a vacuum where there should be information. If all a guy sees following an event is cyber-backslapping and virtual-attaboys from the officers and organizers, he's not going to be able to properly evaluate the quality of the event. Maybe the big bugs and straps had a good time, but was the rank & file satisfied? Did they have the experince that they were led to believe they would have? I would rather plow through a thread with 186 AARS from privates (both good and bad) than read one more "I'd like to thank all the little people and my fellow officers that helped me put on this event" post.

For event organizers and attendees, when you read a good AAR of an event, take the good that is mentioned and try to meet this experince as a goal. If there is bad mentioned, don't shoot the messenger. Take his perception and learn from it, making adjustments if necessary. If his perception is skewed, politely point out your perceptions. I once posted an AAR that was 80% good and 20% bad. I was slammed on the board and told that I was ruining the hobby. And this was even before certain fora became infamous. Do not make the rank and file feel intimidated about posting an AAR - they are the men that can make or break an event with their input.

Phil Campbell
ChickenNeck Mess
1st Btn, Army of the Trans-Miss
OTB Teamster Corps

[Jersey Devil]

Re: How do you motivate others or improve the hobby?

Phil,

You are most definately ruining this hobby. I can't wait for the post-event-post about the little people. How come no one ever thanks the big people? Or the critters? Or the Lister [sic] bags? Or the toll collectors on the NJ turnpike when we travel to an event?

Next time take the time to thank the toll collector near the Del. Memorial bridge on your way to an event. Put him/her in your next AAR.

Pop and I did thank the nice ladies down the street from TAG at that corner diner (?) on 79 I believe, for breakfast and their shitter before the event on Fri. morn. I am sorry to say that I forgot to include them in my AAR. Actually I forgot to write an AAR. Maybe I was not even there! Hmmm. Wierd. No I am quite sure I was there. Green glass, the Admiral, Farina, naked "'lil" guy in the pond, Officers surrendering en mass, no wet plate artists, no bulk buys, no bulls h i t, good time. Yep I was there.

Please, don't forget the toll collectors and Lister [sic] bags!!

Got ilk?

[KathyBradford]

Re: How do you motivate others or improve the hobby?

Once again, Elizabeth is being modest. She has written several articles that address a wide variety of issues, but these two are expecially appropriate to this topic.

In the first, she explains how to gently encourage people to understand and do things better.

"The Missionary Position: Proselytizing for Progression, or A Brief Guide to Encouraging Progression in “Civilian” Groups"


In the second, she presents a great financial case for doing things right from the start, rather than "making do" and replacing them later.

"The True Cost of Accuracy"


With a great sense of humor and a lot of common sense, she explains things well. Even for gentlemen who never thought they'd find something applicable for themselves, her articles are well worth the read.

See her website for more. It's a great place to spend a couple of days and a great resource all around. www.elizabethstewartclark.com

Thanks Elizabeth!

[Miss Dixie]

Re: How do you motivate others or improve the hobby?

"Mainstreamer Mentality"? That expression alone would irritate me enough that I would not be inclined to listen to anything that person had to say,whatever happened to "live and let live"? How would you define "mainstreamer mentality" ? Someone that doesn't believe the way that you believe, or won't take your word for something, not trying to pick a fight here, just some attitudes really bug me.

[HOG.EYE.MAN]

Re: How do you motivate others or improve the hobby?

Bo,

Naked "lil" guy in the pond.

If your talking about the CS side, then that was my friend Jeff McIntire. Jeff will do anything to draw attention to himself. Mac Daddy's the King ;)

[ElizabethClark]

Re: How do you motivate others or improve the hobby?

"Mainstreamer Mentality"? That expression alone would irritate me enough that I would not be inclined to listen to anything that person had to say,whatever happened to "live and let live"? How would you define "mainstreamer mentality" ? Someone that doesn't believe the way that you believe, or won't take your word for something, not trying to pick a fight here, just some attitudes really bug me.

"Mainstream mentality" doesn't imply anything, actually. I can define a Progressive mentality: that kind of thinking questions everything, and won't take *my* word for things. That kind of thinking asks "What was done, and how can I do it? What was thought, and how can I get that across in my impression?"

I think you may have misunderstood what I said, though... I don't walk around preaching. I like going to the occasional "battle & ball" (mainstream, if you define mainstream as being something in the vast majority, which I do), just to meet people. If they ask me a specific question on something, and if it won't break any scenario to discuss the topic, then I'll share what I know. If they want to put that information into practice, I'll help them (if they want me to). If they don't care to use that information just now, or want to look into it more before using it, that's fine, too.

Now, having been a part of the "mainstream" (that vast Battle & Ball culture) for several years early on, I can tell you my thinking now is quite a bit different. At the beginning, I was playing theme dress-up, and camping in funny clothes. I looked like all the other reenactors, but not a lot like an actual person from the 1860s. I had little information on the time period. I was very much like 90% of those around me... and that's fairly mainstream, in the sense that all the fish are swimming the same direction.

Then I switched streams.

Rather than asking "what look pretty?", I started asking "What did they think looks pretty?" And that led to a whole lot of other questions... and I was roundly criticized by my friends for daring to question the stream we were all swimming in, and wanting out of the main stream, and into a tributary or three. No live and let live there! I wanted something different, and was trounced for it. Mostly, that was a reaction to the unknown--my friends knew they enjoyed things the way they did them, and didn't know if they would enjoy things the way I wanted to try them.

That's why when I meet or talk to others who are at that point that I was those years ago, I let them know how much fun I'm having now, asking a LOT of questions, and finding documented answers to them. I let them know how much easier it is to use period methods to make the clothes, how much easier it is to operate in an accuracy-based scenario, how much more fun it is to go to an event with a purpose, rather than having to justify my existence constantly.

The term "mainstream" isn't necessarily derogatory. Neither is the term progressive, hardcore, authentic, etc. I'll certainly live and let live! But if a person want to live differently, or is bored with what they've been doing, I'll certainly share what I've found... after I'm asked.

BIG difference in being there, offerring new opportunities, being friendly and polite, and setting a good "example" of a progressive mind-set, and ambushing people to criticize their stuff. The first is a positive experience. The latter is about the most rude thing in the world.

And we're talking about being encouraging to the hobby as a whole, so the latter has no place in it.

*****
Those small living history settings I wrote of earlier are a good opportunity to introduce people to a different experience. We're hard at work planning a Soldier's Aid Fair out here in Idaho. This will be a vastly different event than the folks are accustomed to. Most of the groups in the region would best be described as "mainstream", with just a few notable exceptions (Hi Doug! LOL) This event isn't being created as an "ultra-authentics only" thing... but since it's an unfamiliar scenario, it's a perfect opportunity to give lots of help by way of impression notes and standards, event guidelines that are easily enforced, etc.

It's not a "bridge event." It's just a different event! And, it's one with a decidedly civilian slant--there are very limited military roles, which will push the gents out of their comfort zone, and ask them to think of life just Before they enlisted or were drafted. It's a non-camping setting--there will be replica buildings to use. There won't be individual campfires--instead there will be meals served from the replica hotel/restaurant. There won't be a fashion show--instead, there will be women, men, and children working a functional Aid Fair, with plenty of time to eyeball one another's clothing. There won't be a single battle--but there may be a parade, enlistment and drill, political stumping, and a rally.

It's something so different from "the mainstream" out here that it's bound to catch a few eyes, and ruffle a few feathers. That's okay!! Those that participate will range from brand new, to old vets wanting to give it a go, to dedicated "progressives" who like to push the envelope a bit. (And trust me, this simple scenario pushes the envelope for the Pacific Northwest!!)

Anyhow--I'm getting windy again, aren't I? LOL I'll sign off now--and am looking forward to hearing others' suggestions on ways to encourage strong participation and morale in the hobby!

[SCTiger]

Re: How do you motivate others or improve the hobby?

To Bo and evryone :0

Again I wouldn't advocate a false or sugar fed report on any event that fell apart completely. With any problem I would approach the parties responsible first, then I would post the highly objective AAR to our established cadre. If there are one or two minor problems, why trash the entire event?

In "selling" the c/p/h side to a mainstreamer (or anyone else) I sure wouldn't highlight the worst event. I would advise any candidate that we do have an occasional flop, but for the most part, I would reattend every c/p/h event I went to in 2003.

If I attend a mainstream event and it's the usual fare, I have no right to complain. I know what to expect. They do things their way, we do things our way. I am there to promote "our" way. I certainly wouldn't sugar coat the facts for this side of the hobby, I would find the candidate that isn't looking for an "easy" time, we are looking for folks who love history and a challenge.

In regards to "leading by example", you have to be a leader first. Then you find your followers.

I never meant the "blind eye" I had for the mainstream was a new rule for the c/p/h. Any hobby has to improve from within. We can't attend their mainstream events as campaigners (outsiders) and then trash it with a scathing AAR. The harder you hit the nail, the deeper it goes in the wood.
Bottom line: The only things we can do is "lead by example" and sell the choice events. We can't crticize/shame/laugh/ridicule anyone toward authenticity.
We can promote our good side.

[Jersey Devil]

Re: How do you motivate others or improve the hobby?

Arron,

Grey was the way at TAG, yes I was on the CS side.

Hanging out your junk and swimmin in cold, green scummy water is certainly a way to attract attention. But the "shrinkage" is what made it so funny.

Cock-tail wieners anyone?

Fix 'em with Farina!

[HOG.EYE.MAN]

Re: How do you motivate others or improve the hobby?

Grey was the way at TAG, yes I was on the CS side.

I hear ya...... It felt good sweeping the field all weekend. Maybe that's why lil Mac took a bath....... It shrunk like a frightened turtle.

[Agate]

Re: How do you motivate others or improve the hobby?

I here ya...... It felt good sweeping the field all weekend. Maybe that's why lil Mac took a bath....... It shrunk like a frightened turtle.

Aaron,

Sounds like he didn't have to worry about the turtles.

"Littler Mac"

:p

John

John Sarver
Cin. O.

I'm not sure I'm sorry I missed that.

[HOG.EYE.MAN]

Re: How do you motivate others or improve the hobby?

John,

Seeing Mac swimming in the pond was hilarious.

After a couple of minutes, Ben Grant threw a large onion into the pond and it startled Mac because he thought it was a fish jumping around near him. It was funny seeing him exit the pond immediately after that.

Mac leaves us with plenty of stories after each event I'm sure you're well aware of. ;)

Wish you could have been there.

Aaron
Cin. O.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: How do you motivate others or improve the hobby?

Hallo Kameraden!

Being the SINKS, I have been more patient with this thread...
By and large, supporters of the doctrine of "leading by example" and "missionary work" tend to be "newer" folks closer to the "entry" point of any given level of interest or application- while detractors tend to be veteran, experienced, cynical, jaded, burned-out, and veterans who used to believe in it an dhave the scars to prove it.
Looking at the successes, statistically, are we not talking about a handful of people "brought over to the Darkside?" Less than five 5%, whose personal desire to learn, grow, progress, and evolve moves them toward the H/A end of the CW Hobby spectrum- while the masses continue reenacting reenactments like alcoholics and drug addicts unwilling to change (which, in the end, is fine for that hobby).
And that 95% of the CW community is perfectly happy at whatever their level of Mental Picture happens to be, and do not want to be told what they do not want to hear.

As newer folks migrate to this Forum, we are seeing the same cliches and trite expressions repeat and repeated. This topic has been discussed here over and over, in the past few years.

Thanks all for sharing their thoughts and ideas, but some of this has gotten
cliche-filled, worn, and in some cases juvenile- all beneath the higher goals we would hope for this Forum.
Please consider which Forum you are posting on.
Thanks.

I am locking this thread before the next Flame War..

The only person you can change is only yourself.

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt, Moderator

[SCTiger]

The biggest roadblock to authenticity...



Comrades:

After a long reflection on the 2003 season, the up's and down's of the hobby and the various conflicts on any given forum, I have arrived at this conclusion. This biggest roadblock to authenticity is not:

1. A lack of authentic sutlers or affordable gear.
2. A lack of living history programs or events.
3. A lack of research or documents.
4. A lack of leaders, people or organizations.
5. A lack of interest by participants
6. A lack of support by nonreenactors.
7. A lack of online forums or communication.
8. A lack of real estate.

The single greatest roadblock to authenticity is simply the anti-progressive and negative attitudes that infiltrates our hobby. I am not "ego hunting" on this thread or sharpshooting any one personality. There are some Titanic egos around our camps, but most of the drama centers around personality clashes and rarely concerns real issues on authenticity. Drama Kings/Queens are a given.

It could be a farb that doesn't want to give up his camoflauge hunting boots, because "the $100 brogans are too much and uncomfortable" to the know-it-all malcontent that can't engage in a good discussion on equipment without listening to or allowing others to voice their opinion. If that doesn't work then it degenrates to name-calling and other juvenile tactics. Both types have the same disease; no one can tell them anything and they will argue their point to oblivion.

There is really two modes, authentic and garbage, right and wrong. There is no middle ground on this. You can call me all the bad names in the universe, make fun of my looks or insult my bloodline and proclaim that I am a two legged mule, none of that matters. When somone makes a point that I am doing something incorrectly, I listen to what they have to say. If they are right, then I have no argument and I will ask for further information. If the person is a well recognized expert in the field of study, I would be more inclined to listen without being defensive.

Let's suppose that 1,000 good attitudes showed up to a normal farbfest and for some reason the bad attitudes stayed home because there was a bad weather report. Their only goal is high authenticity and they commence to help each other with total cooperation. They go over everything and agree on the changes and standards needed. The result would be the most authentic event in the history of reenacting, even though it wasn't planned or sought after by the organizers. Authenticity comes from the good attitudes of the reenactors.

By the same token, a organizer plans an EBUFU event and for some unknown reason only the worst, argumentative, stubborn, ego-maniacs show up and do everything but, reenact history. Nothing goes as planned and all of the participants spend their time making fun of each other as they begin to act like a bunch of rich Saudi Princes at a beach party. No new knowledge is gained and several blood feuds emerge over stupid conversations that could be resloved with a mininmal of research and some adult supervision. No solid progress is made. That scenario isn't that far fetched. I am sure many of you have been to something similar to that.

Don't take me the wrong way, 90 percent of the folks in the c/p/h are well informed, very personable and eager to learn or teach. I enjoyed all of the events I attend last year. On the mainstream side there are plenty of good attitudes, but there is a large percentage of folks who don't care or just don't know enough. We can preach all day long to a farb, but unless the attitude changes it's like arguing with a fool.

When we fashion any future events, maybe the first required pieces of equipment should be a thick skin and good attitude. For new recruits I would seek a good attitude and a willingness to learn over any other attributes.

Just an op-ed.