Learning from Photos

[lhsnj]

One of the ways I am wanting to improve my impression is by being able to look at period photos and gather as much info as I can. Unfortunately I don't always know what I am looking for. What is common or what is different.

An example is a photo of my wife's ggg uncle. He was in the 63rd VA, Co C. I wanted to post the photo and see if there was any information that people could gather from it or help me learn from it. It is a simple photo to my eyes as it is just him and not much around him.

In looking at it, I gather it is early in war as his jacket seems quite snug around the mid section compared to the chest. Also I notice it appears to have 6 buttons and an external pocket. I skimmed the Jensen article on depot jackets and it didn't seem to match any of the "images" although it had similiarities to some. Could this be a "commutation" jacket?

What other information can one gather from this picture? Any ideas or help would be greatly appreciated. Hopefully I can learn from this photo and then begin to apply the lesson to other photos.

Thanks

[Eric Burke]

Re: Learning from Photos

You've got a priceless hairstyle image there, take note of his "unhattedness".

[lhsnj]

Re: Learning from Photos

Eric

It seems like he may have just taken his hat off as the hair on the side of his head is quite flat compared to the hair a little further down. Although I am not sure if he planned his hair that way.

My father in law, has the same hairstyle and he doesn't do anything to it. So it may be a genetic waviness of the hair. Or quite possibly a cowlick.

Would having a photo without a hat make it seem odd? There are other photos out there without hats.

Anyone have any suggestions about the coat, that I am interested in trying to figure out.

Thanks

[Eric Burke]

Re: Learning from Photos

Greg,

I guarantee you he fixed his hair before having that photograph taken. It's the 1860s, and you don't often have your "likeness" taken more than once. The wavy hair appearance as well as the flare in the front are all characteristic of what I understand as a period hairstyle. Chances are he spent quite some time preparing his hair for the occasion.

Perhaps someone who knows a little more about period hair than I could help this gentleman out on this? I'll admit, I'm not very fluent in the jacket, etc. area, so I'll leave that to someone else.

[manevin]

Re: Learning from Photos

Good thread. I have often found that photos are the best way to refute a kindly rebuke about one's appearance. I wear a McDowell brim, which sits differently on the noggin than the common bummer. I have had numerous comments made about the need for it to fall forward, however, I can point to images that show the cap standing up on end. I have been tempted to carry a image in my pocket to give to those who feel the need to tell me that I don't look period. But I keep in pocket only those items necessary for campaign.

Photos demonstrate that there is always the exception to the rule.

Michael Nevin

[10TnVI]

Re: Learning from Photos

Just some observations-
1- your man apparently doesn't like the feel of cloth on his neck, judging by the way he has worn the collars on his shirt and jacket.
2- It''s interesting that he apparently has two seperate "watch chains" leading into the slash pocket on his right breast. What else is he carring there besides a watch?
3- Looks like he's been spending some time at home or in garrison/ winter quarters before having the photo made.
4- There's something going on at the right bottom of the coat, either a belt buckle or something else attached to the belt is pushing up the lower hem of the jacket.

[lhsnj]

Re: Learning from Photos

Is it possible that the 2nd watch chain might be a shadow?

I had some further information about this family member:
Riley served in the 63rd. Virginia Infantry; Co. C, CSA. Enlisted
Apr. 1, 1862 at Moc Gap and was present on and off until July, 1864. Nation Archives, Military Service Records, Washington D.C.

Where is Moc Gap?

Also in another sidenote to the family tree it talks of him burying his brother who was a member of the 50th VA Reg after the battle near Fayette Courthouse during the Charleston Campaign. The note mentions that he buried him later that day after the battle.

So could the time and location of enlistment tell us anything about the style of jacket he is wearing?

Thanks for the other observations.

[10TnVI]

Re: Learning from Photos

I considered a shadow but discarded it for the following reasons-first -the "U" of the lower chain is narrower than the upper, second the upper chain dosen't sit far enough out from the jacket to cast a shadow that far down the front. It's shadow would be very close to almost under it. Third, a light souce strong enough to cast a shadow would have had to be almost directly above and would then cast a similiar shadow on the eyes, nose, etc. Thus, I feel it's safe to say he is wearing two chains.

[dusty27]

Re: Learning from Photos

Greg, check this link for info on the 63rd and its connection to the 50th.

http://members.aol.com/jweaver300/grayson/63rdva.htm

Company C (Captain Stephen B. Cornutt's Company, also known as the "Marshall Rifles," named for General Humphrey Marshall) was organized April 6, 1862 at Moccasin Gap mainly from Grayson County residents. The Grayson Militia and militias from other southwestern counties were mobilized in early 1862 by Marshall after a Federal incursion at Pound Gap. This was a ruse to obtain further recruits for the Army.

Fateful orders sent down to Grayson County were issued by Colonel Isaac Neff, commanding the 25th Militia Brigade. Special Order No. 1 read:

Headquarters, 25th Brigade Va. Militia Wytheville, Virginia March 24, 1862 You are hereby ordered to report as early as practicable with your command at the old Court House in Russell County, requiring each man to bring with him any private fire arms that he may have--also a part of blankets and change of clothing. Such as can will bring cooking utensils for which they will be paid. You will report to these headquarters your arrival at the place of rondevouse. By Command of Brig. Gen. H. Marshall (Signed) Isaac Neff Col. Commanding 25th Brig. Virginia Militia

Lieutenant Colonel J. W. Vaughn, commanding the 78th Militia Regiment responded on March 25:

In compliance with the above order Commandants of Companys of the 1st Battalion 78 Regiment are hereby ordered to notify their men to assemble at Gregory's Store on Elk Creek Tuesday morning the 1st day of April 1862 by 9 o'clock and in addition to the above equipment they are required to furnish themselves with four days rations. Thence to proceed to join the 2nd Battalion under the command of Major I. M. Young.


The Grayson militia formed all of the original Company C and much of Company G. This company was personally sworn in by General Humphrey Marshall. The company was at Abingdon on May 1, 1862. Thirty-six members of this company were transferred to Co. G, January 17, 1863. Company strength February 29, 1864 was 80 men, not including officers. The company was at Chickamauga, Rocky Face Ridge, Resaca and other important battles in Georgia. It was reported that the company lost 27, killed, wounded or missing in May and June 1864. J. O. Brewer reported, 51 years after the war was over, 30 men "served to the end of the war." This number is high, since official records indicate some of his list could not have served to the end. Officers:

Stephen B. Cornutt, Captain
Joseph Young, 1st Lieutenant
John Blair Waugh, 1st Lieutenant/Captain
Troy H. Spencer, 2nd Lieutenant
Bennett Rector, 2nd Lieutenant/1st Lieutenant
William H. Scott, 2nd Lieutenant
Kenly C. Atkins, 1st Lieutenant
James Nelson Ingoldsby, 2nd Lieutenant

From Weaver, Jeffrey C. 63rd Virginia Infantry, published by H. E. Howard, Inc

This series is invaluable to researchers of the Virginia units of the CW. For no other reason than the bibliographies in each one.

[Texian]

Re: Learning from Photos

The photo is also a nice example of clothing not perfectly fitting. The coat appears a little snug with both the button-edge and buttonhole-edge taking on a more curvy shape than it probably had when first made.
---Ed

[yeoman]

Re: Learning from Photos, second watch chain?

Sir, I see this is an older thread but if I may add a bit. My first thought was possibly its his cone picker on a chain. Thats my two cents and thanks for sharing your families image of ggg uncle.

[roundshot]

Re: Learning from Photos

His jacket is the so called Wytheville Depot pattern, often seen on photos of soldiers whose units originated in the western part of VA. Here's a photo of the real item.

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: Learning from Photos

Hi,

Besides for the amount of buttons on the jacket; what is the difference between this pattern, and the Richmond Depot II ? If I wanted to sew one of these jackets could I use a Richmond Depot pattern. Also what type of buttons are on the jacket? When was this jacket used during the Civil War. Thanks.

[roundshot]

Re: Learning from Photos

I am not a tailor by trade (but pretty good in my own right). Having never personally examined one of these I cannot comment on the nuances. The external pocket is one major difference from the RD. Jacket "cut" is also different. Buttons on this are VA state seal. Some "less than" AC approved vendors make "interpretations" of this jacket. Just Google Wytheville Depot and see what you get. "Mileage may vary" as some of the more articulate sages on here say.

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: Learning from Photos

Hi,

Thanks for the information on the jacket.