The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

[jhodnett]

James River

I was wondering if someone might have seen any of the TypeIII Enfield's that James River is producing. I am looking at getting a new one in the future and am intrested to know what their work looks like. I have heard good things about their M1861 Rifle Muskets but haven't heard any thing about their Enfield's. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Vr,

[Dignann]

Re: James River

I found these threads with the search function:

James River Armory enfields

James River Armory

Eric

[Johan Steele]

Re: James River

While good work... go w/ Lodgewood. IMO that is the best defarb for the price out there. I've been impressed w/ the work of James Country, heard a couple complaints, but I think the positives far outweight the negative.

I would invet the $30 in Craig Barry's excellent work: The Civil War Musket: A Handbook for Historical Accuracy-Lock, Stock and Barrel. It's worth it's weight in gold IMHO for the person looking to purchase. While written from a shooters perspective I think that's what you want. It should feel and look the same and it should shoot th same... otherwise you just have a Hollyweird prop that blows smoke.

[adamandnicole]

Enfield Lockplate Question

I just received my Birmingham Enfield defarb from James River today. I have a question though, the lock is marked 1861 Tower, but the crown is over V.R---I thought that the crown was only over V.R on London guns, not Birmingham. I could only find evidence of the crown over V.R on London guns in Mr Walden's article. Could anyone offer their thoughts on this. If it is wrong, I want it to be fixed before I take it into the field.

Adam Dickerson

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Enfield Lockplate Question

Hallo!

Short answer....

I would not say "wrong," just not commonly for BSAT guns.
I have an original lock with a ""1861" over "Tower" and the crown over "VR."
Such was used at the end of the inspection process for R.S.A Factory stamped "Enfield," stamped "LACo" for London Armoury Company locks, stamped and "TOWER" over or under the date for other contract arms.

Curt

[adamandnicole]

Re: Enfield Lockplate Question

Thanks for the reply. So as I understand it, the V.R may be found on any Enfield? These markings can get confusing.

Adam Dickerson

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Enfield Lockplate Question

Hallo!

"the V.R may be found on any Enfield"

No, not "any." IMHO, other than on London Armory and some London Commercial firms made for the British Government, just typically NOT BSAT made guns (as far as I know) NOT made for or accepted into British Government service. (The "VR" and crown being added when the gun was viewed and accepted by the "Government."

Most all late BSAT guns were NOT taken by the British Government and so marked as the RSAF at Enfield Lock and London Armoury Company had demonstrated that inter-changeable parts was a better way to go than the hand done, non-interchangealbe BSAT contractor pieces.

As a result that portion of the BSAT business was being "phased out" until the market from U.S. and C.S. purchases extended their lives a few more years.

But in brief and to over-generalize...
IMHO, I would not personally want a Crown VR lockplate on an 1861, 1863, or 1863 dated BSAT "Enfield" 3rd Model as that denotes "British government" and the ones made for the US and CS markets were marked with just the crown.

Curt

[militiaman1835]

My new enfield

Just purchased an original 1855 dated enfield type 2 for $850. Opinions on my purchase? Did I over pay? Everything correct on it? JIM HENSLEY

[Johan Steele]

Re: My new enfield

I think you quite a deal, it looks like quite a bit more than a wall hanger. Congrats.

[Mark Carey]

Re: My new enfield

interesting find. Looks pretty sharp to me! I just got my hands on a brittish 1857 enfield that Im waiting to arrive in the mail. Of all places the rifle was found it was found it Afghanistan. I guess there is a lot of bazaars in Afghan selling these rifles and other guns similar to it. 260 bucks is what I payed for it.

[30th IL]

Re: My new enfield

Shane, what is the writing on the left side stock?
Jim, what's the bore like?

[militiaman1835]

Re: My new enfield

Musket is at my local black powder gun shop in Orlando and will be mine as soon as I ante up the $900+ with tax this friday. Bore is dark with some rifling showing. Markings on stock are:
15111
302
62
D
704

Anyone know the meaning? JIM HENSLEY

[Johan Steele]

Re: My new enfield

My guess; rack #? I don't realy know. A type 2 Tower wasn't likely a CW arm as IIRC most were still in active Brit army service; that said if the broad arrow isn't on the barrell... a very nice piece for the price. I haven't seen even a wall hanger Enfield for less than a $1000 in quite a while & it doesn't look like a cleaned up Nepal arm... at least not from here.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: My new enfield

While it is hard to make any definitive statement from viewing pics, there do seem to be British government marks all over this one, making any US Civil War provenance unlikely. The barrel proofs are hard to make out but they do not appear to be the Birmingham commercial variety. The outside of the lock plate has a Crown over the royal cypher (V.R) behind the hammer, and unless I am seeing things what appears to be a crown over a broad arrow just to the right of the "Tower" mark. I would suspect that if you remove the lock assembly and look on the inside of the lock plate you may find either a "WD", broad arrow and a crown over a "B" and some numbers. These are government inspectors marks and British Army acceptance marks.

The price being very reasonable for the overall condition also suggests this P-53 came to the states much more recently than the 1860s. Maybe not from Nepal or India but some place in the British Empire where it was well preserved. Civil War gun collectors hate the old British Army Enfields showing up because they keep the market flooded with low cost vintage P-53s in good condition.

Beginning in 1854, the so-called "original four" Birmingham commercial gun-makers (Swinburn, Tipping & Lawden, Hollis & Sheath and T. Turner) all supplied the Crown with P-53 Enfield rifle-muskets. You may find evidence that one of the "original four" produced your Enfield as it does appear to be a Birmingham gun. Look on the bottom behind the trigger guard to see if you can locate a gun-makers name. It would not be unusual to also find a stock-makers name in the ramrod channel, with a (different) name under the barrel and sometimes another maker's name stamped inside the lock.

Doing some research to learn a bit of your P-53s history and unravel a few of its secrets can be fun. C.H. Roads British Soldiers Firearms 1850-1864 is a good book with which to start. You will find similar P-53s with the same government markings among the photographs in the book.

Hope you enjoy your new acquistion.

[militiaman1835]

Re: My new enfield

Thank you Mr. Barry. Your book is on my nightstand next to the bible!! Keep referring to it and working on defarbing my repro a bit at a time. JIM HENSLEY